Hardcode sugestions

Talk about on-going development of Supreme Ruler 2020 here. What would you like to see in updates or in a future Supreme Ruler title?

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Hardcode sugestions

Post by Ruges »

Got a couple simple suggestions I think you guys should implement.

1) AI should not declare war on a region it is not boardered with when it is already at war with a region on its border. (it should finish the war on its border first before it goes to war overseas)

2) When country A is allied with B and C. Then country C declares war on B. Country A must leave its alliance with either B or C (incase of the AI it should be based off relations and if a country borders there country or not. Somthing like A has .5 relations with B and has .8 relations with C. So it would drop its alliance with B. However say it had a border with B, that would add .4 to its decission So it B would have .9 and C would have .8 this would cause it to drop its alliance with C.)

3) AI should not send amphib assualts when it has war on its border. (I have seen many times when a country like china is at war with allot of its neighbors, then it takes a good portion of its land forces and sends them on an amphib assualt down to siam or somthing like that only to have all of its ships destroyed by Tiawans missles, thus destroying a good portion of China's forces).

I have a bunch of sugestions, but I think these 3 are things that can be easily done (might even only take a couple hours to program all 3) that will add allot to the game for the time invested.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Ragu »

I endorce this suggestion! 8)
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by tkobo »

Disagree with all three.

Would it be nice if the AI made decisions like these a bit smarter ?No doubt,but removing them isnt the answer.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Ruges »

When you say the AI should make smarter decisions your asking for a total rewrite.

For instance on my number 1 request:
Currently the way the AI decides who to declare war on is purley a relations desicsion (maybe putting a higher priority on border regions). My sugestion would involve putting a check in. (does china really need to declare war on Papa newguinia when it is already at war with India, SK, Japan, Russia, mongolia, Kazakstan, vietnam, tiawan...........) Your request to make it smarter would involve would invovle it not only needing to know the relations between the two countries but also the relations between its allies and its neighbors. and its allies neghbors, the situation it is declaring war on, how effective would attaking this country be, would it be victories in the war, would it lower the effectiveness on its current wars to the point where they would loose there. If it gets attack by anouther country could it handle these wars, would this war spark anouther war and anouther leading to a downfall, does this country hold a strategic point, will attacking it be the best time to catch it off guard, if I dont attack now will it attack me later when it matters most? These questions and more would all have tobe put into values and the AI would have to decide what actions to take. So when you say this is a bad idea becouse it would make the AI dumb. I disagree with you. While it would remove the posablity of the AI attacking a stategic point when it counted. The AI does not even know how todo that right now. It just knows I hate this country, lemme declare war on it, which ends up spiraling it to its downfall.

2) How would this be a bad idea? How could this idea be any smarter, and not dumb down the idea? Becouse I can only think of one or two instances where a country would want tobe an ally of two countries that are at war. IE sell it supplies, and.... hmm maybe only one. and the first one you dont need tobe an ally. So yea this is not dumbing the AI down, infact it is making it smarter. Becouse why is B going to want to be friends with A when A is allied with C who is attacking B.

3). While I would love to make the AI make better decission in this situation. It bairly has the function to make a decision on what to attack as it is. And my current testing shows an issue with the AI in this department even more. Once I freed its units to go onto the offensive, the AI then found free units to go on amphib assualts. So now the AI loves doing them. what I am constantly seeing is several countries load there troops onto ships and then send them out. This has two negative effects right now. One, when a country like india is doing this, it does not have many units to begin with. So the large chunk of units it takes from its battlefield hurts its wars on its border, these wars would be so much easier if it did not do somthing so stupid. Two, it offers no protection to these transport ships, and with the waters just full of enemy ships, the transports are usualy sunk. So if there was a way to make it make a better decisions reguarding weather or not to send an amphib assualt I would agree with that. But I dont see a way to easiliy do that. So it would be easier if we just made it the AI was finish the fights on its border before it attacks overseas.

The reason I sugested these 3 things. is they will have a great impact and the curent ability of the AI for the better with very little effort of codoing it. I am sure we all would love some super AI that could outthink a human, where an AI cuba could defeat a player US. but where just not going to see that.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by tkobo »

Dont know about a total rewrite.....But deffinately more improvement.Also since BG is about to announce their next title,i dont expect much more work to be done on sr2020GC.

And id never want an AI cuba to be able to defeat a decent human player US.Im not even happy with a human player cuba being able to defeat an AI US, as its just too far beyond realism.BUt i can live with that,as its just an AI :lol:

The alliance proposal im not sold on at all.Just becuase one ally and another are at war, doesnt mean i should have to drop either alliance.I could just stay neutral in the war, and support both.Let them work it out themselves.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

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The alliance proposal im not sold on at all.Just becuase one ally and another are at war, doesnt mean i should have to drop either alliance.I could just stay neutral in the war, and support both.Let them work it out themselves.
And maybe you are right, maybe country A should be able to stay allies with B and C. However B should start to loose relations with A becouse it is ally with C and C should loose relations with A becouse it is ally with B. Even double so, becouse one there ally is not helping them so they should like there ally less, and two the ally is friends with there enemy.
Im not even happy with a human player cuba being able to defeat an AI US
In my current build the only way a human cuba is going to defeat the AI US is if they ruine the US's economy over several years so they cannot support there military.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by tkobo »

Id be for that.Id also love to see trade effect diplo stats.Which is how id propose such a penalty due to alliance be balanced out.
So if the region allied to both regions at war,gave both regions very favorable help ,economically for instance,it would cancel out the penalty.

Once BG has finished work on sr2020GC, ill dive into your mod.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Ruges »

Was also thinking about the whole transport ships being sunk thing. How about coding it in. When ever a transport ships gets loaded by units. 2 warships with equal or greater range are asigned to escort the transport ship unitil the units are off loaded. This should help lessen the losses of entire fleets when the AI tries to perform amphibious landings.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Col_Travis »

Ruges wrote:Was also thinking about the whole transport ships being sunk thing. How about coding it in. When ever a transport ships gets loaded by units. 2 warships with equal or greater range are asigned to escort the transport ship unitil the units are off loaded. This should help lessen the losses of entire fleets when the AI tries to perform amphibious landings.
Why? Only the Allies durring WWII did this, the Soviet pollicy was to try and break through any blockade while enacting the Sea Denial policy the the Germans tried durring both world wars!!! Can't do it if BG has no intention of changing Submarine Deployment Policy!!!
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Ruges wrote:Got a couple simple suggestions I think you guys should implement.

1) AI should not declare war on a region it is not boardered with when it is already at war with a region on its border. (it should finish the war on its border first before it goes to war overseas)

2) When country A is allied with B and C. Then country C declares war on B. Country A must leave its alliance with either B or C (incase of the AI it should be based off relations and if a country borders there country or not. Somthing like A has .5 relations with B and has .8 relations with C. So it would drop its alliance with B. However say it had a border with B, that would add .4 to its decission So it B would have .9 and C would have .8 this would cause it to drop its alliance with C.)

3) AI should not send amphib assualts when it has war on its border. (I have seen many times when a country like china is at war with allot of its neighbors, then it takes a good portion of its land forces and sends them on an amphib assualt down to siam or somthing like that only to have all of its ships destroyed by Tiawans missles, thus destroying a good portion of China's forces).

I have a bunch of suggestions, but I think these 3 are things that can be easily done (might even only take a couple hours to program all 3) that will add allot to the game for the time invested.
1) I don't think this should be implemented, eg. If Russia is at war with Estonia and it would want to invade Mongolia or Latvia, then I think it would be fully acceptable, but if Russia would be at War with China, then DoW:ing someone else would be simply stupid(well, the Artificial Intelligence is supposed to be stupid, otherwise it would be unwinable)

2) I completly support, but I would add a third option, "stay neutral" that would give a diplomatic hit to the parties involved.

3) I don't agree, I think the AI should learn to escort their transport fleets instead, I think that could be more usefull. and theese taktics could be used for "outflanking" the enemy, by landing forces behing the enemy.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Ruges »

Why? Only the Allies durring WWII did this, the Soviet pollicy was to try and break through any blockade while enacting the Sea Denial policy the the Germans tried durring both world wars!!! Can't do it if BG has no intention of changing Submarine Deployment Policy!!!
Why? becouse I am tired of seeing countries load up a dozen transport units with hundreds of units, only to see them all sunk by a couple patrol boats that have missles on them. by having some warships with them, it should lesson these losses. Also in my latetest testings, after the help of George, I now have subs operating (infact I have the whole navy doing some pretty impresive stuff). So yea I defenatly think sending escorts is the current solution to the issue. I would love it if they sent amphib assualts more intelligently, but that is allot more work then what I sugest. and even then escorts should be put in with transports. In the game how many times do you have a tansport ship all by itself? probly almost never unless you have the entire sea area cleared of enemy ships, Or your a wreackless armchair general who places his commanding in luck.
1) I don't think this should be implemented, eg. If Russia is at war with Estonia and it would want to invade Mongolia or Latvia, then I think it would be fully acceptable, but if Russia would be at War with China, then DoW:ing someone else would be simply stupid(well, the Artificial Intelligence is supposed to be stupid, otherwise it would be unwinable)
Huh? all the countries you listed here are land boardered, This rule would not affect any of these wardecs. it would only affect Russia then being able to declare war on Mexico, Or australia, or Tiawan, or India. It does not need togo after those countries until it finishes it's war with Estonia, mongolia, Latvia, China, and what ever other countries that boarder it it also goes to war with.
3) I don't agree, I think the AI should learn to escort their transport fleets instead, I think that could be more usefull. and theese taktics could be used for "outflanking" the enemy, by landing forces behing the enemy.
And in my previous post I did sugest that anouther way for this would be to add escorts, But I dont think that is solve the issue. While I have not seen the Amphib code, I doubt there are much tactics involved with it. I doubt the AI is saying well the frontline has become a stall, and we have all these unused units laying around lets put them on a transport and send them around to attack in the flank. No the AI is saying hey, we have been atwar for awhile, the enemy has a coastline, we have units doing nothing, lets amphib assualt them, then the units go onto a transportship, and the AI sends them to the enemy coastline. that is all.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Hundane »

Why? becouse I am tired of seeing countries load up a dozen transport units with hundreds of units, only to see them all sunk by a couple patrol boats that have missles on them.
.

Me too and Im hoping these changes you and George have been working make it into the next update.
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by tkobo »

Id rather see an attack force sent in to control the area before an amphib assault attempt,than escorts.Id of course love to see both.And id love even more if multiple naval groups were sent at mulitple locations to seize control of those areas,and then only one/ some of those locations were actually landed at.

Id give a body part,for the AI to surge subs into the area of a planned landing as part of that naval force sent to seize control of the area........
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Ruges wrote: ...
1) I don't think this should be implemented, eg. If Russia is at war with Estonia and it would want to invade Mongolia or Latvia, then I think it would be fully acceptable, but if Russia would be at War with China, then DoW:ing someone else would be simply stupid(well, the Artificial Intelligence is supposed to be stupid, otherwise it would be unwinable)
Huh? all the countries you listed here are land boardered, This rule would not affect any of these wardecs. it would only affect Russia then being able to declare war on Mexico, Or australia, or Tiawan, or India. It does not need togo after those countries until it finishes it's war with Estonia, mongolia, Latvia, China, and what ever other countries that boarder it it also goes to war with.
...
sorry I might of formulated my self badly, imagine Russia being at war with Estonia. Then if eg. Fiji pisses Russia of or if ROC DoW an ally eg. PRC. Why could they not go and invade a potentially good tourism paradise or help their ally, by launching and invasion of Taiwan island to weaken ROC?
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Re: Hardcode sugestions

Post by Ruges »

tkobo wrote:Id give a body part,for the AI to surge subs into the area of a planned landing as part of that naval force sent to seize control of the area........
In my current test, the US took subs, carriers (with planes on board), destroyers, cruisers, and well a large portion of thiere navy, captured all of Cuba's coastal waters, Before it sent it's Amphib assualt down. So what blood type do you have? I might be looking for a new Kidney.

In china I finaly got to see where china sends its massive flotilia of transportships, off the coast of Vietnam and just sit there without offloading them.
sorry I might of formulated my self badly, imagine Russia being at war with Estonia. Then if eg. Fiji pisses Russia of or if ROC DoW an ally eg. PRC. Why could they not go and invade a potentially good tourism paradise or help their ally, by launching and invasion of Taiwan island to weaken ROC?
Its a good point, However even under the current game mechanics. the AI does not consider such things as helping an ally, by destroying its enemy. So my proposal does not limit the AI in this way. What it does do is limit the AI from loading all its transport ships up with units only to be sent to there doom. It also prevents the AI from declaring a war it cannot fight.
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