Pre-emptive strike

Talk about on-going development of Supreme Ruler 2020 here. What would you like to see in updates or in a future Supreme Ruler title?

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Porcupine1981
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#16 Post by Porcupine1981 » Jan 19 2010

George Geczy wrote:Ahh yes, the ol' "but he was going to hit me first! honest!" defense - an all time favorite in the courts :)

So let's see if I can work this out in gameplay.... I provoke a country to have high belli against me by poking and prodding and mistreating it, and that gives me belli to attack it preemptively...

I'm not certain it really works like that, except in a "I'm-sure-Iraq-has-WMD-no-I-guess-they-didn't-sorry" sort of way.
I'm not intending to start a political discussion here, but the prodding and poking etc. is pretty much the run-up to the war between Russia and Georgia. Of course in that case, Georgia started it, but Russia would probably have gotten away with a pre-emptive strike as well.

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Fistalis
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#17 Post by Fistalis » Jan 24 2010

tkobo wrote:I was thinking perhaps a pre-emptive strike like action could be added to the belli system.

This way when a region has a huge belli against you, but isnt going that final step and dowing,you could dow them and get a lesser reaction to your action due to their high belli.
I'm not sure about this specific feature. But I Agree there should be ways to manipulate belli a little more. Hoping spies get caught works great for major powers.. not so much for trying to provoke weaker countries.
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Apoffys
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#18 Post by Apoffys » Jan 24 2010

A simple way to implement genuine pre-emptive strikes (attacking someone because you know they will attack you as soon as they have built up enough strength or whatever), would be to massively increase the amount of belli caused by having troops near the border. I have seen statements that say it's like this already, but I've never seen a noticeable effect even when having massive armies poised to strike.

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tkobo
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#19 Post by tkobo » Apr 12 2010

I think apoffys suggestion is a VERY good one.Simply create or largely increase the effect a large amount of a regions troops on the border should have to create a war.Maybe add into the events, an accidental war event,that can occur in such situations.

april 1rst: Canada today started shipping Poutine across the border into the US.
April 2nd:The outrage and disgust in the US quickly grew to extreme levels causing the govenor of Mich to deploy national guard units at border crossings to search for and turn back any shipments found.
april 3rd: A canadian border guard seeing a shipment of poutine being dumped on canadian soil,by a national gaurdsman standing on the american side of the border,was a tad hungry and rushed the location to gobble up the poutine before the 3 day rule(the canadian version of the 3 second rule) came into effect .
The american national guardsman seeing the frothing at the mouth armed canadian charging him raised his weapon...
april 4th:no one knows who fired the first shoot.But sometime yesterday hostilities broke out between american and canadian forces at the border.

Players receive event code "april 1";Accidental incident caused by proximity of forces ,continuance of proximity will likely result in futher events.

effect: both players involved receive temporary belli and ....(insert 2nd factor here,who's name i forget at the moment) increase.War now far more imminent.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#20 Post by tonystowe » Apr 12 2010

I have posted before that the game needs a more indepth "intelligence" feature where the player and the AI can get a "picture" - albeit not 100% complete - of what a region is doing so that region's gov't can "make" a determination as to whether or not to increase belli, deploy troops, etc.

Items of interest that should give cause for such counter actions, or a pre-emptive strike, could be the building of nuclear weapons, an increase of using FAB facilities (ie the US has half of its ground FAB facilities out of operation and then all of them come online and begin a large buildup), the direction of a region's research (ie - towards nuclear weapons, towards more powerful missiles, etc), etc.

I realize that implementing such a sub-system for this type of game is probably near impossible (as everything is possible to some degree), I believe that such a system would only improve a game such as this. The current messages that a player receives from its spies are, at most, a nuissance (sorry BG). I am hoping that Ruges creation of the Marine Scout and Marine Sniper units will allow me to insert them into a neutral region and gain more information..

tony

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tkobo
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#21 Post by tkobo » Jul 19 2010

Another thought on this.Currently you take a very big DAR hit as well as the international belli and relations hit.How about putting in there some decisions at the DoW stage,that allow the player to claim justification outside of belli that can lower the DAR hit or effect the international hits ........

Player selects region,goes into diplomacy,clicks red button for Dow,message comes up with options.For instance.
*Claim region being DoWed's high belli against you is a "clear and present danger" .

This option could keep the belli and international relations hits as normal,but lower the DAR hit.

A selection of claimable justifications would really flesh out the belli system,and allow more creative play.They could really cover alot of ground here,even going as far as having justifications that intentionally increase the relations effects.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#22 Post by Communazi » Jul 20 2010

I'd love to get a little popup informing me " __________ has raised Defcon to # and is amassing troops along our border" and a respective option to do the same + deploy garrisons.

But staying true to real life, this sort of intimidation isn't always to spark a war. You may just want to intimidate the country into buying you off (i.e. a non-aggression pact, and only you having transit rights to their territory.. and half their treasury.. territorial demands. etc.)

There really needs to be situations where neither side has international repercussions. ala Marco Polo Bridge incident where everyone else turns a blind eye and lets the two duke it out... whilst sending rediculous amounts of military goods to the one they prefer.

And finally, de-militarized zones. They're really the only way to prepare for a total backstabbing of an ally. Or infringe upon them to tell your neighbour "I'm just not that into you"

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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#23 Post by Hundane » Jul 20 2010

A selection of claimable justifications would really flesh out the belli system,and allow more creative play.They could really cover alot of ground here,even going as far as having justifications that intentionally increase the relations effects.
Although I really like this idea, I can think of two instances that nations used pre emptive strikes that were condemmed by the world but were considered justified and were supported by those countries people, I just cant see a reason to use a pre-emptive strike in this game. Theres nothing to Pre-Emp. The AI doesnt mass its armies on its enemies borders before attacking. The only indication you have that its preparing for war is that it raises its Defcon Level and your gut feeling since you know which regions it usually attacks. The game would need something like WMD sites or something similiar for it to be useful.

It would also need a bigger penalty (not just hits to relations), something like locking out a random commodity from the world market for a certain amount of time based on your UN standing. The lower your UN standing, the longer you cant buy or sell that commodity on the world market. The more times you commit an aggressive action while you have "sanctions" imposed on you the more commodities you have locked out. Get yourself kicked out of the UN and your locked out of the world market completely.

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Re: Pre-emptive strike

#24 Post by tkobo » Jul 20 2010

Sometimes the AI does mass units on borders,its rare, and they are often lined up there to attack another,but they can line up there.BUT what your pre-empting,is the 100% belli and 100% likely hood that you can see they have.

Sure they may not actually jump, ever,even with those scores.BUT those are the scores we have to go on about whether or not they have the game rules defined ability to jump.And they do as often as not.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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