Pre-emptive strike

Talk about on-going development of Supreme Ruler 2020 here. What would you like to see in updates or in a future Supreme Ruler title?

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tkobo
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Pre-emptive strike

Post by tkobo »

I was thinking perhaps a pre-emptive strike like action could be added to the belli system.

This way when a region has a huge belli against you, but isnt going that final step and dowing,you could dow them and get a lesser reaction to your action due to their high belli.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by George Geczy »

Ahh yes, the ol' "but he was going to hit me first! honest!" defense - an all time favorite in the courts :)

So let's see if I can work this out in gameplay.... I provoke a country to have high belli against me by poking and prodding and mistreating it, and that gives me belli to attack it preemptively...

I'm not certain it really works like that, except in a "I'm-sure-Iraq-has-WMD-no-I-guess-they-didn't-sorry" sort of way.

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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by tkobo »

So, thats a "yes,well put it in" ? :P
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

One thing that would also be a good idea is saving the some data from the dead nations
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by tkobo »

Definately.Its practically required if they expand the features to include liberation.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by GIJoe597 »

George Geczy wrote:I'm not certain it really works like that, except in a "I'm-sure-Iraq-has-WMD-no-I-guess-they-didn't-sorry" sort of way.
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Irrelevant, as well as false. Why does everyone only think of "Nuclear" when WMD is mentioned?
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by Balthagor »

quite relevant to the thread. As for it's veracity, that's an off topic discussion that has gone on many times.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by George Geczy »

I guess the point is whether casus belli is local or global. It's one thing to convince your own population that you need to go to war, it's another to convince the world that you have the right to.

In WWI the Central powers felt that they had full belli for the events that proceeded the war, but of course others did not agree.

And support for pre-emptive strike works better locally where you can whip your population up into a frenzy with a bit of fear-mongering, but it is harder to convince the rest of the world.

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tkobo
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by tkobo »

Okay, but in the world of sr2020,you KNOW a region hates you and might be attacking you any second.Theres no question that attacking you is on their mind.

And im deffinately not looking for a free pass on dowing.Id be VERY against that.My thoughts on this are that if implemented it would give a small decrease in world reaction.Lets say your belli means your dow would cost you 60pts in world relations,lowering that to say 50 can make war a more acceptable choice for the player,without making it consequence free.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by fool »

With 'conquer the world' style games, it always seems to be either hardly ever any wars, or everyone attacking you for no reason. For SR 2020, I think that some method of generating conflicts that you can get involved in, similar to the Korea situation near the start of the game, where you have enough belli to declare war on north or south korea. One way could be by having regions' nuclear ambitions raise tensions, and opening the door to a DOW by any region. The ai could then choose sides in this war, allowing there to be a conflict that does not necessarily result in the elimination of a region. For example, two regions fighting over a middle eastern country, and having a ceasefire once the country is wholly under the control of one of these regions. Just an idea, and it has probably already been mentioned.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by George Geczy »

tkobo wrote:And im deffinately not looking for a free pass on dowing.Id be VERY against that.My thoughts on this are that if implemented it would give a small decrease in world reaction.Lets say your belli means your dow would cost you 60pts in world relations,lowering that to say 50 can make war a more acceptable choice for the player,without making it consequence free.
You make it sound reasonable :) It still feels strange to allow a country to poke another one with a stick and then declare war and get a (small) benefit out of all the pre-war stick-poking. But the "it would have happened anyways" world view is not unreasonable.

Hmmmmmm.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by Galvorn »

I have to agree from a gameplay standpoint there needs to be a way that you can incite war in some kind of diplomatic manner. Some way to increase tensions between your two regions in a world stage manner. I know people say cut relations, set troops along the borders, etc, but all of these actions still depend on the computer deciding to attack you.
A good example would be country A attacks country B. You send a diplomatic response to country A denouncing thier military actions against country B, etc. This increases tensions between your regions. However this dosent decrease your UN approval. You should get some kind of timer before you can warn them again( say 30 days), this would give the computer time to seek peace or at least halt thier current attacks/advances. If the AI responds agreeing/complying(and stops attacking, just defends) then you cannot attack them without a big UN negative. If the country does not agree/comply then your justification for attacking them raises. The timer thing might be a bit much on the programing side, but it was an idea to prevent abuse. Or perhaps you can only use that diplomatic option once every 30 days on one nation, that sounds better and easier to program.

This dosent have to be overly technical either, add a diplomatic option to send to other countries and then mod the AI an appropriate response mechanism( perhaps using the same mechanism it uses to determine if it will DOW a nation). Depending on the diplomatic outcome is how the UN's approval is adjusted.

You need a way to increase tensions without someone already DOW'ing someone else as well. Say a border/terittory dispute or you make claims against thier government for whatever reason. These need to be diplomatic options also, something to cause some political trouble with a much smaller UN negative than just DOW'ing your neighbor for no reason. These options could build up tensions over time and eventually lead to war.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by Col_Travis »

Your WWI anallogy is totaly incorrect! A better anallogy would be the many preemptive strikes that Israel has done against their hostile neighbors or the US against Great Britian in 1812. Anothe good example would be Imerial Japans attack against the US on 12-7-1941, where the US continued to put emargos against them to force them out of China, was strangling them ecconomiclly. WWI was a competly different story with revanchism, irredentism and national self esteem on the parts of Austria-Hungry, France and Russia then later Italy plus secret agreements by such estemed statesmen as Winston Chuchill and Lord Grey!
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tkobo
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by tkobo »

Look ! In the road ....its a bump ! No, wait ,it was just a garrison.....time to clean the treads again :-(

^ or in other text,is this being considered for the update ?

Right now,you can litterally own all the world but a few allies and a few regions that have 100% belli and 100% prov that will likely never dow you(ive watched one for over 30 years now).The hit on dowing them,is rather huge.
It could use a reduction,under the above circumstances, and this would allow that.
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Re: Pre-emptive strike

Post by fool »

Usually, I just 'take the plunge' when I know I'm ready, and ignore all relations.
"All warfare is based on deception...
Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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