Scotland

Talk about on-going development of Supreme Ruler 2020 here. What would you like to see in updates or in a future Supreme Ruler title?

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birsealmighty
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Scotland

Post by birsealmighty »

Hi guys,

I'd like to start by saying congrats to the team for Supreme Ruler 2020 - it is an excellent game.

Being a Scot from Scotland I'd like to ask for the following things for future updates:

1. Can the capital of Scotland be changed from Glasgow to Edinburgh. It is incorrect in the game.

2. Can Scotland be included as a separate country within the World 2020 and the UK be left as England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland has the Scottish National Party leading the Scottish Government as part of devolution although at present we are still part of the United Kingdom |O . This is going to change however and Scotland will have left the United Kingdom before 2020 :P.

If its not possible to include it in the 2020 sandbox can it be added as a scenario?

There is plenty people from Scotland expats alike that would like to see this scenario added and to try this out. I am a member of the Scottish National Party and would gladly tell them this has been added so members around the world could try this out.

I am about to embark on a four year at University studying American Studies and either Politics or International Relations. This game is perfect for me as I'm learning as I play. I also play Football Manager on the PC and have bought this game since the first Championship Manager in its early days. I think this was around the 90's. My point here is that the fans have made the game what it is. What they do is have volunteers for each of the teams. You may wish to ask for the same for the countries. The Internet is a great tool nowadays but by asking people who live in the individual countries about a subject you can decide whether to include or not.
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Legend
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Re: Scotland

Post by Legend »

Hi, we'd have to make a new scenario that would use a grouping of the world 2020, and then modify the entries that relate to the UK.

I'll take a look and see what is involved or someone else could work on it.

Daxon
birsealmighty
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Re: Scotland

Post by birsealmighty »

Daxon,

Thanks for your reply.

If you need any source information from over here don't hesitate to ask.
Hypse
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Re: Scotland

Post by Hypse »

If you make that mod I’d love to play it : ) (I’m a Scot to)

You really think we will have independence by 2020? I’d be shocked if we ever get it (a pleasant shock) under any circumstances but even more so under the SR story line witch has the EU dissolving in 2018 and France and Germany going after our North Sea oil. Plus the US has packed up and went home. Even if we got freedom by 2015 we would probably be signing it away for protection again by 2020 : )

The thing with Glasgow being the capital surprised me as well and I nearly made a post about it to. But after some thinking it sort of makes sense in that scenario. It’s the Shattered World one where all the major nations have fragmented in a backlash against a failed central government. To a lot of Scots Edinburgh and Holyrood represent that central government every bit as much as London and Westminster. I’d vote for a clean slate in a new city anyway.

Don’t suppose any dev remembers why they switched it to Glasgow?


Oh another thing I wondered about that neck of the woods. In World in Crisis the UK has a population of 63 million but in Shattered World England alone has 100 million. Can anyone remember the reasoning for that? Tbh considering our immigration policies I think the latter is maybe more accurate : )
birsealmighty
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Re: Scotland

Post by birsealmighty »

Hypse wrote:If you make that mod I’d love to play it : ) (I’m a Scot to)

You really think we will have independence by 2020? I’d be shocked if we ever get it (a pleasant shock) under any circumstances but even more so under the SR story line witch has the EU dissolving in 2018 and France and Germany going after our North Sea oil. Plus the US has packed up and went home. Even if we got freedom by 2015 we would probably be signing it away for protection again by 2020 : )

The thing with Glasgow being the capital surprised me as well and I nearly made a post about it to. But after some thinking it sort of makes sense in that scenario. It’s the Shattered World one where all the major nations have fragmented in a backlash against a failed central government. To a lot of Scots Edinburgh and Holyrood represent that central government every bit as much as London and Westminster. I’d vote for a clean slate in a new city anyway.

Don’t suppose any dev remembers why they switched it to Glasgow?


Oh another thing I wondered about that neck of the woods. In World in Crisis the UK has a population of 63 million but in Shattered World England alone has 100 million. Can anyone remember the reasoning for that? Tbh considering our immigration policies I think the latter is maybe more accurate : )
I do very much believe we will have Independence by 2020 yes.

In previous years Unionists have put down the Scottish people and led many to believe that they weren't able to run their own country. Scots weren't good enough, that we weren't able to stand on our own two feet. Unfortunately many in the past believed them. Then more so over the last decade people have realised that we are better than this. The Labour Party tried this negative campaigning for the Scottish Elections in 2007 and they were shot down in flames by the electorate. They have lost Glasgow East (a very safe Labour seat) more recently and they are having to be dragged kicking and screaming by their own supporters to change.

I laughed at an article in the Sunday Herald today by Tom Shields on his opinion of the three candidates for the opposition Scottish Leader of the Labour Party. I should say they are Scottish here but they are not. It's worth reading although the end states:
'As Labour fails to bridge its credibility gap and no suitable leader emerges, here is another scenario. In a future independent Scottish republic, Alex Salmond has served his maximum two terms as president and must stand down. He swaps jobs with wee Nicola so he can continue to run things, a la Vladimir Putin, as prime minister.
Heck, Eck might even send in Scottish troops to liberate the ethnic Scottish population of Berwick.'

But back to your posting. You would be surprised the allies that Scotland would have throughout the world as an Independent country. We wouldn't need to sign anything away for protection be it in Supreme Ruler 2020 or for real. I still think that as the game represents the geo-political world that Edinburgh is and should be the capital of Scotland.
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ainsworth74
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Re: Scotland

Post by ainsworth74 »

Im not trying in anyway to stir things here, but why does scotland want its independence from the UK? Its one thing (among many others :roll:) that I have never quite understood. |O
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birsealmighty
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Re: Scotland

Post by birsealmighty »

ainsworth74 wrote:Im not trying in anyway to stir things here, but why does scotland want its independence from the UK? Its one thing (among many others :roll:) that I have never quite understood. |O
Ainsworth74,

For me personally its because Scotland was a country before we joined the Union in 1707 and has a rich history. You only now have to look at application forms as an example for change. If they are not specific asking whether a person is Scottish or is from Scotland many people are writing/ticking other when asked if they are from the United Kingdom or British.

We already have a nationalist government in power through devolution in Holyrood and this has been voted in democratically.

There are many things I could put here but unlike the propoganda that Scots are given more through the Barnett formula than to those in England it is not true. The Union for me simply does not work for Scotland. The Union is geared towards England because it has to be. It comes down to numbers. There is how many millions more people in England compared to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland? Is it 50 million people in England if not it can't be that far away! So Westminster has to bring in policies that look after England first and then every other country in the Union secondary.

And I understand that coming from Middlesbrough for many years your city was very industrialised. Dundee where I am from was the same. Dundee at one time supplied almost all of the worlds needs for jute and employed 50,000 people at its peak. It's all gone now and for 80 years we have not had anything to replace it. I want Scotland and the people within it to be able to make its own decision on the way forward.

Proof of poverty is in the figures from 2006. Of the 25 poorest areas in the United Kingdom; 22 of them are in Scotland and 3 of them are in my home city of Dundee. They are namely Bowbridge, Stobswell and Fairmuir. I want an independent Scotland that will allow us to take our destiny in our own hands.

The Union is just another form of colonialism. Right now Scotland takes in more money than it gets back through the Barnett formula.

Oh and contrary to certain Union opinions Scottish Nationalist Party members are not English haters and I'm certainly not. I have family in England. I want Scotland to trade with England and once we are Independent I think we will be allies for the future. The song Flower of Scotland was introduced in 1967 by the Corries as the alternative against the British National anthem God Save The Queen was drowned out at football and rugby matches alike by whistling and booing.

Flower of Scotland - Original Lyrics

O Flower of Scotland,
When will we see,
Your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
King Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.

The hills are bare now,
And autumn leaves lie thick and still,
O'er land that is lost now,
Which those so dearly held,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.

Those days are past now,
And in the past
They must remain,
But we can still rise now,
And be the nation again,

That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.

I have highlighted in bold that even in 1967 Roy Williamson of the Corries was trying to get his point over that Bannockburn 1314 is in the past. It's part of Scotland and England's history. It is just that - History.

So I hope this helps a bit to make you understand. I have nothing against anyone from England - I just don't want my country to be owned by England any more.

Lol Scotland will now probably be taken over a few more times in Supreme Ruler 2020 after this posting :-)
Scornic
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Re: Scotland

Post by Scornic »

I'll throw in a few thoughts on this. :D

Scotland as an independant nation would be a lot more dynamic than it currently is, tied to the Union. Look at other smaller nations in the region like those in Scandanavia, and a great example of a small nation doing well is the Republic of Ireland. They are able to adapt and change a lot quicker, and respond to more localised needs.

As stated very well above, we are a small minority within the UK, and therefore lower down the priority list in the eyes of the Government, especially compared to the South East of England. Although I fear if/when we get independance, some areas will still have problems and complaints as policies will be geared towards the needs of those in the Central Belt (Glasgow and Edinburgh). But even then, it would still be an improvement than trying to compete with those of the South.

Part of my Nationalist feelings are also based on principal. Why shouldn't we govern ourselves, we are a sovereign nation after all. We would also be quite self sufficient, and in my personal opinion be better off.

Others will argue that we couldn't survive on our own as we are subsidised by England. If that's true, then why aren't they happy at the idea of getting rid of us, and saving themselves a lot of money. Something I'll never understand.

Speaking of papers, up here we a have a "Scottish" edition of many of the national papers, that try to give the impression of supporting the country, but on a recent trip to London, I happened to pick up a copy of the REAL version of one of these papers, and it was stating exactly the previous point, that we were a bunch of scroungers and hangers on, it was almost propoganda like. It's this sort of thing that builds the desire for Independance.

Rant over. :) Should probably be in the OT forum really.
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Legend
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Re: Scotland

Post by Legend »

Back to the scenario...
All I was planning to do was pull off Scotland and be done. Then if you wanted you could modify the story, and relations.

When I'm in to work today I'll take another look at it and see where I get with a separated Scotland.

Daxon
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Re: Scotland

Post by Legend »

Ok, I made it into work and put the finishing touches on the map that includes Scotland.

Now, I'm just trying to figure out where to put the zip file I made...
hmmm.

Daxon
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Re: Scotland

Post by Legend »

Send me your email address privately, and I will send you the zipped file. I think I can use "You Send It".
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Re: Scotland

Post by SoB »

[_]OT [_]OT i never understood why scotland joind the union

i know a bit of the reson but is't there a document about scotland never follwing the britsh monarch

persanly i suport a independed scotland. [_]OT [_]OT
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Re: Scotland

Post by Scoose »

Is this Houses of parliment or SR2020?
I come on these forums looking for help with a game and I see people posting about Scotland getting independance, I am sure there are more suitable places to argue whether or not the Scots will get independance.
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Balthagor
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Re: Scotland

Post by Balthagor »

Scoose wrote:Is this Houses of parliment or SR2020?
I come on these forums looking for help with a game and I see people posting about Scotland getting independance, I am sure there are more suitable places to argue whether or not the Scots will get independance.
While the topic did drift a little, this thread is still primarily about a mod made to try this "alternate world". We do try and encourage the threads to stay on topic as much as possible.
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Re: Scotland

Post by Cutlass »

Ahem.

Based on my experiences on a variety of different message boards and using in game chat features in several different MMORPG's I'm convinced that the only way to prevent topic drift is to shoot all the participants before they post :-) Given that most people would likely regard that sort of "cure" as worse than the "disease" I'm afraid that there isn't too much choice in how to deal with it except to expect it to crop up at least a little bit every now and then and take it in stride.

Regardless, this is a relatively low traffic board and IMHO most of the posters seem to be doing a reasonable job of keeping to the topics in question. Personally I wasn't aware that there was that much support for Scottish Independence and found the relatively short digression to be interesting. Now if we could just get the government off our backs here in the U.S.A. ...
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