is the... [loyalty change a factor yet?]

killerflood · Post by **killerflood** » Jun 13 2008

loyalty change a factor yet?

couldnt you just set that it goes down every so days and when it gets to zero it goes up as the country who controls it?

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 13 2008

Is hex loyalty in the demo ?I dont think ive seen it anywhere in game.

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Jun 13 2008

There's a loyalty filter and I think I recall loyalty tool tip in one of the terrain tabs. Not seen any partisans yet???

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 13 2008

Cool, just when in and looked and its there.Thanks

Odd though that large portions of Israel are loyal to the U.N

Wow... even funnier.The Israeli intelligence facility is in land loyal to the U.N.
Since when does the U.N. have ANY intelligence ?

Post by **Balthagor** » Jun 13 2008

hmm, that is supposed to be loyalty Palestine...

Loyalty does not change.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 13 2008

Balthagor wrote:hmm, that is supposed to be loyalty Palestine...

Ahhh,k.That would make alot more sense.

Loyalty does not change.
BUMMERAddition in future update possible and or likely?

killerflood · Post by **killerflood** » Jun 13 2008

wow that sucks.

red · Post by **red** » Jun 13 2008

That's terrible. Did you lessen production penalties for loyalty or anything? It's just crippling on a large map.

Post by **Balthagor** » Jun 13 2008

I'm not sure if that balance has changed, I'll send George to this thread...

yakaspat · Post by **yakaspat** » Jun 13 2008

How about changing this topic title? Am I the only one seriously annoyed by "is the" as a topic title?

Post by **George Geczy** » Jun 14 2008

The loyalty effects on production have been reduced from SR2010.

However, loyalty for consideration of Partisans and Guerrillas is still there.

couldnt you just set that it goes down every so days and when it gets to zero it goes up as the country who controls it?

This is a debate that Chris and I have been having for five years now, and counting. Gameplay-wise there is something to be said for shifting loyalties, but realism-wise is a different matter. Did Ukrainians lose their loyalty to a Ukrainian state after more than 60 years of Soviet control? Did the loyalty of occupied France shift to Germany after 5 years of occupation? Have the Palestinians decided that "ok, Israel has been here long enough, time to shift our loyalties..."

Without an old-fashioned ethnic cleansing, loyalties don't often change due to military conquest.

-- George.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 14 2008

I think they can though.AND that all it takes is a few generations.

So, make the system allow for a change of a single point every year of game play (or so),IF the social spending is sufficient to promote such.
(AND make the penalty 2 points of loyalty per month IF the social spending is not sufficient)

So in 100+ years (or so) OF GOOD RULE the people could have been swayed.

This should only apply to foreign loyalties.DAR already does a good job with doemestic loyalties at this time.

killerflood · Post by **killerflood** » Jun 14 2008

100 years? you gotta be kidding me.

for this i dont care about realism! i just want loyalty to change!

Miecznik · Post by **Miecznik** » Jun 14 2008

When talking about Loyality, the first question i would ask is - What loyality is ?. If we assume that loyality states for Nation. Then i would like to add that there are more nations than countries worldwide. Take a look at just Great Britain. It cosists of Scotch, Wales, England and Northen Ireland. Not mentioning tle smaller islands they got in their borders.

If we take a close look at top 10 nations worldwide we can notice that the biggest and wealthiest of them are actually federations of nations. U.K, U.S.A, Russia, Germany, India, China. They all got something we could call "Nations" inside one country. Germany for 1500-2000 years have actually been particioned into small geographical terrains, cities and such. Russia does not entirely consist of Slavs and christians. China, even if we refer to it as one country is actually a set of individual provinces witch are quite loyal to centralized rule.

Gerchy reffered to Ukrainians as ppl who kept their nationhood. As far i know Ukraine was one of most loyal servants of Tzar. With Cossacks as most loyal of his units (They were for exsample used for peacekeeping because they just listened the orders).

So if i were to change something in the system. I would rather partition countries into "regions" with diffrent support, army, economy of each. It could create intersting chalanges for diffrent types of goverment Communizm with their levist policy could eaisyly assimilate new regions, Dictature would cause low support and upsrings, and Demokracy would have biggest effeciency but would have to work hard to actually get the people to believe in the new rule.

As far i know devs created "Only" place for 255 countries. So if we want this to exist, the limit must be raised.

What do ya think bout that viev of things ?

- Miecznik

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 14 2008

I think your using a VERY loose definition of "nation".