Oh no, another Economy thread

[Gurzit]

I've seen that pollution is not playing mayor role in SR 2020 economy, but have you considered at implementing pollution in similar way Civ4 does, or in other word that it shrinks your production by some percentage, or like SimCity has in a way that it affects immigration, health etc. My idea that pollution would be generated by all industry and that its effects could not be eliminated just put at small levels, by R&D, efficiency and social programs. On map it could be seen like resource (example: when you construct oil industry you see red dots for amount/intensity). Another thing would be that it affects relations if your pollution goes over the border.

[Feltan]

I think they are saving that for the next version of the game: SR2050: Al Gore -- Fact or Fiction.

Regards,
Feltan

[The Khan]

Is mocking Environmental effects an American custom? For Chuck Norris's sake!

Remember we are in a closed environment, just like a space ship, but larger.

What we do echoes all throughout Earth.

[tkobo]

Is mocking Environmental effects an American custom? For Chuck Norris's sake!

Not really, but giving unproven theories treated as borderline religions a good shake is.

Remember we are in a closed environment, just like a space ship, but larger.

Ummm, NO we arent , and NO it isnt.Things come into our world (environment) from space all the time.
And things leave it also.
The world is very LITTLE like a space ship.
Dont forget,IF scientists are correct, the world was created by its elements coming together in space (from space)item by item, layer by layer , to form this world.
It has never been closed off or independant from space.
We as humans are part of something larger than us, our world.
AND our world is part of something larger than it.
And that "it" is likely part of something larger than it.
etc...

What we do echoes all throughout Earth.

Yes, becuase the world revolves around the human race. Oh... wait ....

As for Gore, thats easy:Fiction. I doubt even he knows who or what he is any more.

As for global warming,unproven despite whats its fanatics claim.

As for the topic.I always liked the way sim city handled polution.And in sr2010 there was a start in including polution in the game.
There are for instance techs that reduce polution, which than affect other social catagories like environment ,law enforcement,etc...

In sr2010 polution became more of a background item that was fairly hidden away and had only minor effects .

I wouldnt mind it getting more attention and having a larger effect in sr2020, as long as it doesnt get out of hand.

[lwarmonger]

Is mocking Environmental effects an American custom? For Chuck Norris's sake!

Not really, but most of us are less willing to believe what our politicians and lefty celebrities tell us.

Remember we are in a closed environment, just like a space ship, but larger.

That is untrue. The earth does a great deal on its own that we don't understand, and as was said above, energy and other things come in from space all the time (quite literally, all the time), and leave all the time.

What we do echoes all throughout Earth.

Global warming is, as of yet, quite unproven. Nor does the "science" demonstrating that it exist really even come close to providing convincing evidence of the cause. The problem? Investment into research regarding global warming was politicized from the start. People like Al Gore decided to start putting government and NGO funds towards proving that it does exist, and that is horrible science.

In fact, almost no open minded research of any kind has occured into the matter. The right wing think tanks may not have anywhere near the funding that the pro-global warmers have (hence why there are more scientists... even a slim majority of climatologists, who are the ones who really count in their opinion in these regards, who believe in global warming), however there has been almost no research into this subject whose views have not been skewed by money. Until there is some honest, scientific research without (or even with limited) political bias it would be foolhardy to do anything expensive relating to the field.

I will say this, however. I have seen a number of models used to predict the course that global warming would take by those groups who advocate that global warming is caused by man, and each of them fails to predict what mean temperatures would be today. They are all high. Doesn't that strike you as a little suspicious?

[Lightbringer]

As much as I would love to throw another two cents into the ring about global warming being big piles of steaming dog poo, I'll do my Chris imitation instead.

"We should keep discussion of global warming (outside of how it affects gameplay) in the off topic forum please."

-Light

P.S. Welcome to the Forums Iwarmonger! We have several heated threads in "off topic" about this subject, I was just sniping Balthagor in directing the non game discussion there.

[Feltan]

Light,

You just want to be the teacher's pet!

Regards,
Feltan

[The Khan]

By the way, is there an exact help topic about taxes in general?

I mean, just cutting import taxes by 20% boosted my income 500$ million a day, while tweaking some others screwed me big time.

I really am tired of trial and error. IS there a comprehensive tax guide for economy? I keep failing.

I know that excess money that isn't chewed by income taxes are spent in consumer goods, but...

I need something like a total guide. Any help?

[tkobo]

- The price of oil. SR2010 already got this wrong, predicting a doubling to $55 by 2010; it’s now $80 a barrel and we’re not even there yet. But if we set the base price to, say, $140 a barrel, we’re causing significant redistribution of wealth in the world – especially to third world oil producers.
........................

So how do we tie all of this in to the world of ‘Supreme Ruler 2020’? If we balance our world using the realities of 2007, we’ll be way off (even assuming our ‘economic crisis’ storyline never happens). If we go wild with our ideas, we’ll create a world that is so far removed from today that we lose the ‘play in the real world’ element that is strength of the Supreme Ruler titles.

These are the issues we’re considering in our design; we don’t have the answers yet, but as always comments are welcome…

Oil close to $106 a barrel.Are you starting to get that feeling your gonna be way behind the price as set for the games world agian?

Is that $140 now looking like not so much a long shot ?

[orwell]

I realize this is waaay too late to be of any use for the initial release at least, but based on this quote, seems like, to me, the answer is rather simple.

We're hoping to see Fuel issues be more realistic with our closed system. Water is hard to simulate due to the fact that our model does not represent the transportation cost - South Africa can get Water from Canada without worrying about the fact that it costs zillions to get it there. Food is tough to quantify - the world isn't really short of food, it just has bad distribution and equity.

Wouldn't this be handled by tiered levels of infrastructure?
Level 0 = blocked regions like a forest or just a lot of obstacles.
Level 1 = open plain or something of the like
Level 2 = dirt roads, basic paths
Level 3 = small town infrastructure, acceptable, but not ideal
Level 4 = Connected to main highway/rail systems, achieved by many countries today
Level 5 = 2020 tech achieving the high effeciency of some 90 number or even 100. No crashes, no hickups, nothing bad goes wrong in delivery of goods, ever.

Did anything like this make it in?

[tkobo]

Im sorry, im not totally sure what your saying,but it looks like your asking if shortages could be modeled and worked off of the supply system.

If i got that correct, im ALL for it.Its a great idea.

Imagine food as the goods in question.Imagine a region has a group of hexs in it that only have a 50% supply rating (low infrastructure).

Why not have that part of that region suffer a food shoratge becuase of this ?
This could of course be applied to any resource and it could be a really indepth system.
Shortages could affect loyalty of hexes,voting ,a break away of said hexes into their own region attempt,spawn of anti-gov units ,etc.

Its a great idea that could be grown in so many ways adding so much to how the game plays out.

And yes , it would add to the complication of the game, but to me it would seem to do so in a VERY easy to understand and common sense way.

[orwell]

I believe you got it. It just seems like, at least to me, who admittedly doesn't know much about coding, as a really simple, and accurate as far as I know, way to represent that, yes, You can send all the supplies you want to this region, but if it's got piss poor roads, goods might be damaged, delayed, spoiled, and of course, the longer you ship it, the more it costs.

In another thread somebody brought up having to send circuits to malaysia from another country because the tech level is so low. Technically, I think that should be grouped into another area, tech/commerce level, but, if you think about it, having to ship a 1 cent washer a couple thousand miles is more expensive than, say, buying it in your local hardware store. So not only do your costs increase as you decrease your infra level, but for sensitive goods, you also have what would be attrition. Shipping a can of peaches is not nearly the same as shaping a peach you plucked this morning. Of course, it may be better to simply tally up attrition at the province/region/area and then discern between perishable and not, instead of having the game keep track of quality of items and time for delivery.


I am not really concerned with complication, indeed, I should be worried with this type of game if there is not enough! I really look forward to this game because I hope to face real world challenges, not your basic RTS.

[Lightbringer]

In another thread somebody brought up having to send circuits to malaysia from another country because the tech level is so low. Technically, I think that should be grouped into another area, tech/commerce level, but, if you think about it, having to ship a 1 cent washer a couple thousand miles is more expensive than, say, buying it in your local hardware store.

That was me, and yes, we were talking about the unseen effects of introducing higher tech into a lower tech region. Keep in mind that the reduced cost of labor (thousands of salaries at less than 1/2), land, construction, and taxes (probably some other factors too) make having to ship in basic items bearable. For general plant operation, I imagine TI just buys a whole radio shack and crams it into a cargo container about once a month, but for our smaller project it was a pain in the posterior.

I can see the possibilities of increased low supply level penalties. Perhaps we can mod it in if the 2020 system needs tweaking?

-Light