missile production and Casus belli

Lightbringer · Post by **Lightbringer** » May 31 2007

Sticky sticky wicket.

Example (using Legend's Rainbow diplomacy model): Region A and Region B both like red, green, and pink. Their mutual neighbor, Region C, likes blue, purple, gray, and is acting like a butthead diplomatically. Not only that, but Region C is building up arms as fast as it can build, borrow, and buy them. Both A and B's Belli towards C is climbing. Region A is smaller, poorer, and less inclined to build more than a decent defensive force, already in place. Does A's Belli towards B climb when B decides to counter C in an arms race? Or does A give warm fuzzies to B as a potential "big brother/protector"? Personally I would find A getting pissy with B to be unrealistic and suicidal in the face of a common threat C.

In my mind Belli should be tied to circumstances. Sure an arms build up is a proper Belli raising circumstance, but in some situations it might even lower belli.

I'm not saying this should be the rule, only that if I can imagine this scenario in the time it took me to read this thread...then it should not be ruled impossible. I would want to understand more fully the Rainbow diplomacy thing Legend mentioned before forming a final opinion.

Thoughts?

Jan · Post by **Jan** » May 31 2007

Note: make sure to adapt the game for color blinded people.

cheers,

Jan

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 05 2007

I agree that the effect on belli should be possible to go both ways, depending on the circumstances.

If an ally, who is positioned between my region and a definate enemy (of mine)region,does a large miliatry build up i should have the ability to think belli wise -"thank you, more friendly forces between that foe and my region are very welcome,please build more

"

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Jun 06 2007

I think at this point... the "tough choices model" may help here. Perhaps you'll be asked to publicly state your intentions or thoughts towards an action. I think in SR2010 when your ally is attacked you are asked something similar. In SR2020 we could make the system a bit more robust. Belli is how the outside world sees your country. If you decide to side with one region over another then belli could be affected for you as well, either up or down. Before you are given this tough choice belli could be limited to the aggressor and views of other regions.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 07 2007

A "diplomatic stance" feature would help with this.So that in the diplo screen for a region, you can set your attitude towards another region in the game .

Blind loyalty- well yea, they "accidently" killed 4 of our units, but they did so while attacking an enemy.So we will pretty much ignore the event.

Dip: no effect
Civ : very small negative effect
CB: no effect

Friendly-yea, the might have "accidently" killed 4 of our units,but they make awesome root beer so we dont really care as much as we would had it been another region AND they were attacking the enemy while this occured.We'll just look to hold the shooters responsible, not their entire region

Dip: small negative effect
Civ: measurable negative effect
CB: small increase effect

Nuetral- well yea, they "accidently" killed 4 of our units, and even though
it was "accidental" ,we really want to be sure the regions policies are not the real culprit here.So we'll want the shooters brought to a fair trial, AND the regions policies that resulted in this looked at very hard.

Dip: measurable negative effect
Civ Large negative effect
CB measurable increase effect

Unfriendly:Hmm, they killed 4 of our units, they must be punished in some way even if this was a true accident and the shooters and policy played no negative part in this event.

Dip: Large negative hit
Civ: Major negative hit
CB: large increase effect

Hostile- They killed 4 of units.OUR men lay dead !We must punish this region accident or not ! We want heads to roll !

Dip: largest possible negative hit
CIV: largest possible negative hit
CB:largest possible increase effect

Heck even add in an override for the Dip effect that increases the civ effect toward the region in question and lowers the regions own populations dar towards the home region doing the override.
So the leader can "take it on the chin" at home,in order to lessen the hit taken by the other region.

red · Post by **red** » Jun 07 2007

Perhaps the player should have the option to call a decision from another region. Not too often or by everyone, or it could be abused, but if I have relatively high clout I should be able to make a diplomatic scene about "oh, China needs to make clear where they stand on this issue..."