TERRORISTS

[natoforces]

just wondering, in SR2020, will there be stuff like this:

1. An occasional or frequent "terrorists attack" (or "partisan" in sr2010) popping up in the human controlled nation at random cities or bases or at allied AI, and have the counter-intelligence to reveal the sponsoring nation source for the terrorists group, that way we would have justification for launching an attack at the sponsoring nation. (This would be fun, that way we must always keep our home nation decently militarily-guarded, and have good funding source for intelligence or counter-intelligence)

ALSO...

2. Intelligence reveal a terrorists unit in AI country (allied or non-allied) that is preparing for attack on the human controlled nation. (so this unit will just popped up and will be visible in the map with perhaps a special color, despite of the country it's in). If it happened at a country where there is no "transit treaty" exist, then at this part it is nice to have an options in the diplomatic window to ask the country where the terrorist is revealed by the intelligence, diplomatically, for a permission to cross the border to engage this threat with "pre-emptive attack", that way we can just drop a couple of special forces unit with a black hawk helicopter to engage this threat (it'll be awesome just like reality), OR, if it is a terrorist base reveal by the intelligence and appear on the map, we can just launch a cruise-missile/tactical tomahawk from a sub or battleship to demolish this terrorist base or training camp OR perhaps an air strike launch from a carrier or from a nearest foreign base to deal with this threat (which is why it is essential to negotiate a foreign base-treaty to be able to have a number of foreign bases scattered strategically to deal with a war or this kind of threat, besides, that's how it is in real life isn't it, having a foreign base for overseas security and rapid deployment.

AND IF...

the nation where the terrorist or it's base is located is refusing to give permission to cross the border, then we can load the special forces unit anyway to the black hawk and get them ready to infiltrate OR deployed the battleships with a cruise-missile loaded OR deploying the carrier ready for an air-strike, so at this point it is nice to have the options to be "ticked" in the "unit's window" to "infiltrate or disregard the international border" even for missiles,instead of the "path around" options currently exist in SR2010. If the nations attack then we have a justify war since they attacked first and hosting a terrorist organization or camp, so it shouldn't hurt the domestic or international rating/influence.

Correct me if I am wrong, at the moment in SR2010, if we take our unit and try to put them across a non-transit treaty nation border, it will just stop right at the border. in my opinion it's a little unrealistic, it should be that the unit will still allowed to cross, so no restrictions, instead, when a unit cross other's border without the transit treaty, we should just be getting warning or contact/letter from that nation's government to remove the "illegal military presence in certain period of time or immediately OR an ultimatum to remove them or face a war". So 2 to 3 times tresspasing it is warning or ultimatum, depending on the two nations relationship, that way it paves the way for an infiltration in the case of pre-emptive strike, and if the unit used for infiltration is high-tech or highly-stealthy (special forces, raptor, joint strike fighter) then the chance of those unit to be detected crossing the border is slim, unless there are patrol or radar.

Anyway, it is just a thought, but if it is appear in SR2020, I think it will bring a lotta fun and reality aspect in the game, after all everything in the world these days are all terrorist or everything about them, so it'll be nice to have them implemented in the game

[Il Duce]

quoting "Correct me if I am wrong, at the moment in SR2010, if we take our unit and try to put them across a non-transit treaty nation border, it will just stop right at the border."

If you have stealth enabled they will cross.

[bergsjaeger]

Yes and if you want to cross into another region unnoticed, you have to use a unit with high stealth (ex. US Ranger) and move through low visibilty terrain like dense forest. Not sure if it helps but moving extremely slow helps in the infiltration.

[Balthagor]

...Correct me if I am wrong, at the moment in SR2010, if we take our unit and try to put them across a non-transit treaty nation border, it will just stop right at the border. in my opinion it's a little unrealistic, it should be that the unit will still allowed to cross, so no restrictions, instead, when a unit cross other's border without the transit treaty, we should just be getting warning or contact/letter from that nation's government to remove the "illegal military presence in certain period of time or immediately OR an ultimatum to remove them or face a war"...

Actually they only stop at the border if that is what their "standing order" tells them to do. In the Operations department there are Rules of Engagement - Permitted Unit Pathing settings. The default is that units will not path into regions without transit treaty (unchecked). If you check this as allowed, they will go across any border they encounter. This is default off because of a Diplomacy setting. If you select any region in diplomacy, the second panel has an option for "War on Incursions" which defaults on. This means that if you cross a border without transit, the AI will declare war on you not because it decided to declare war, but because it had preset this as a rule.

Even as far back as update 5, there had been discussion her in house of dropping this rule, but there were too many other elements that would need changing to make it effective. With our extensive notes on changes to how and when the AI declares war and the proposed changes to cause and effect for certain actions, I expect this will change for SR2020 so that "War on Incursions" will default off and not be used at all by AIs (Humans might still want it incase they are playing MP or leaving the game running for long periods of time unattended).

As for the terrorist/intelligence elements, not something I'm involved with from the design side so I have not details to give. I'll mention to David about this thread incase he can give some feedback...

[natoforces]

Well, thanks for the correction Il Duce, although some unit may well be very stealthy but perhaps the transport unit they are in is not (for instance special forces in a black hawk chopper or C-130)

Anyway, thanks also for the response Chris, again as I mentioned, this is merely "just a thought", but it would be really cool if it can be implemented by David, 'cause it will gives a sense of realistic a touch more higher i think

I think it'll be cool, IF:

the randomly popped terrorists unit (perhaps even more than one unit at times) OR a terrorists base OR even a training camp, in the map all over, if they are not dealt with; Will really carried out their threat in our home nation. For example one of our military goods facility is bombed, or maybe a nuclear power plant is bombed, or even a bridge, I mean stuff like that

then as you mention Chris, we can despatch a special unit or launch a missile at the whereabouts of this terrorists units or base, without having the AI declaring war all the times by default, perhaps it might increase the belli against us, unless we were given permission diplomatically (after request is given in the diplomacy window)to cross border and engage this threat.

Ah well, it is just a thought, maybe we can hear some feedback from David

[kafka01]

Intelligence reveal a terrorists unit in AI country (allied or non-allied) that is preparing for attack on the human controlled nation. (so this unit will just popped up and will be visible in the map with perhaps a special color, despite of the country it's in). If it happened at a country where there is no "transit treaty" exist, then at this part it is nice to have an options in the diplomatic window to ask the country where the terrorist is revealed by the intelligence, diplomatically, for a permission to cross the border to engage this threat with "pre-emptive attack", that way we can just drop a couple of special forces unit with a black hawk helicopter to engage this threat (it'll be awesome just like reality), OR, if it is a terrorist base reveal by the intelligence and appear on the map, we can just launch a cruise-missile/tactical tomahawk from a sub or battleship to demolish this terrorist base or training camp OR perhaps an air strike launch from a carrier or from a nearest foreign base to deal with this threat (which is why it is essential to negotiate a foreign base-treaty to be able to have a number of foreign bases scattered strategically to deal with a war or this kind of threat, besides, that's how it is in real life isn't it, having a foreign base for overseas security and rapid deployment.

if such ideological stuff would get into the game, this woulf be a reason for me not to buy it, please keep this kind of crap out and implement a better economical layer, I don't want a simulation of war crimes

[natoforces]

if such ideological stuff would get into the game, this woulf be a reason for me not to buy it, please keep this kind of crap out and implement a better economical layer, I don't want a simulation of war crimes

Kafka, it's amazing how you can call an idea "crap", when it is simply brought up based on the facts that is occuring throughout the world currently, in this instance is "terrorist". So I was just simply mentioning my "thought" on something that I think would makes the game a tad more realistic and interesting in the military aspect of the game. I mean let's face it, you can't go pass a day these days, without reading or hearing about terrorist in the news.

If in your opinion, that you're not gonna buy the game because if stuff like above implemented is simply a simulation of war crimes. Then this is really got me confused define "war crimes" please? when one of the final objective in this game is to rule the world, one region at a time! it's a game for crying out loud, i wonder what your thought is for the first person war-shooting game out there, a genocide?

If you want a better economical layer, then perhaps why don't you thought of an idea or something for the economic aspect of the game and mention it here and see what the Goats people says about it, instead of calling any other idea a crap! Well, I am pro better improvement for the economy aspect of the game, but if you want the best layer of economy, well I can really mention some good "tycoon" game for you to really get economically satisfied

Economy and Military are two great veins of a nations, since they affected each-other equally, how can you have strong military without strong economy, or how can you maintain security for strong economy without military as well!

[Lightbringer]

I don't want a simulation of war crimes

War pretty much is one big violent crime. I'm not sure exactly what your reference point is Kafka, but you are playing a game where you can unilaterally declare war on a region and then smash that entire regions Military, Industrial complex, and even population. Millions of little electronic people die. I'm not hogwild on scenarios designed to simulate hunting terrorists, but I don't feel your language is anything but hypocritical unless you have never declared war or invaded a region within this game.

[bergsjaeger]

if one got locked up for commiting war crimes in a game, I be on the top of the list. When I first started playing the game, I nuked regions for no other reason than killing the people of that region. Even bombed cities into dust. But its just a game, isn't like I will ever be in a RL position to order the genocide of a group ppl. Nor would I want to.

Just a thought but its just a game, how the new one resembles the RL is up to the devs. What ideas they take from this forum is up to them to use and those ideas are just that, ideas. They are not intended to offend anyone or cause flame wars. Overlook them if they upset you and instead enjoy the forum.

[Balthagor]

...please keep this kind of crap out...

Saying you're not in favor or really dislike the idea is enough, no need to be rough on the other forum users.

No word yet from David if he has anything worth contributing to this conversation...

[Il Duce]

...Not to take sides or anything, but might I suggest keeping the perspective that this is a game, and pragmatically there is a lot of work to do to add a feature - or adjust one. If the feature would add to the game play without a) making play harder [such as more micromanagement] or b) requiring an extraordinary amount of dev-time when contrasted to the play-value, then it should be considered. Bear in mind that any feature adds are a trade-off against other feature adds, in terms of limited dev-time. It is perfectly fine to express an opinion for or against an idea, but please don't throw a tantrum.

I think I've said all this before, but when these discussions get emotional it seems appropriate. We all have our pet feature requests, and we all have a few that we don't want, and for the most part the goats have seen to it that nobody has to have a feature forced on them. Let's show them the same respect by being adults [well, adult-like children anyway] when posting, as it embarrasses them to have to adjust our behavior.

[natoforces]

Totally agree...

as i said before, I was just mentioning a thought, because I truly understand, idea can't just be dropped into the game, there is a huge technicalities to goes with it, as in the programming, game-engine, etc.

The reason I mention this, is that I think there should be more "incidents" or "provocation"prior to a state of war between two or more nations; Instead of just simply directly declaring a war to a regions because you don't like them or something, without the thrills and suspense of mounting tensions, incidents, and stuff like that.

Since WWI, WWII and all the war throughout the world these days, is caused somehow or another by something, so that's why I thought I mentioned terrorist, because it's all what we hear these days, because "the world is at war" with them; they simply can't be ignored, because they really carried out their threat.

at the moment stuff like this is already in SR2010, like "partisan unit" they do sabotage, however it all happened to our own newly taken region and they just waiting to be destroyed, i think if domestically it should be the job for FBI or SWAT for that matter, while in real life, intelligence reveal how a terrorist group or base is located in other country, so we have to make decision to strike them before they do it first! it's a good "tension builder" I think