Diplomacy wish list

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Oct 21 2006

To kick it off:

1. I'd really like a 'liberate nation' option when the area of a countries old borders are taken. This could have several options of installing varying government types or making it a puppet with a higher rate of rebels.

2. Like many others the request AI attack region or help defend would be appreciated.

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Oct 21 2006

Can you explain the first one a bit further?

As for the second idea. We still come back to deciding what to do if the region accepts the treaty, do they go to war immediately to fulfill the treaty? Do they have a time period to react? If they dont' react and declare war then what happens? For player to AI, it may seem cut and dry, but when you put a second human player into the mix, it may need some more clearer rules defined - and perhaps some wiggle room. For example, if you send an offer to a player to declare war on another region - perhaps you offer that you'll go to war, and you gave them oodles of stuff to entice them - if we make war immediate, then you both may not be ready (troops not deployed, etc.) So how would people want to see this played out?

On a side note, could an AI or player region send a note to the other region mentioning the treaty to go to war... to "switch sides"? Could they share this news with the world to show intentions? "Look! France wants me to declare war on Spain."

moondrift · Post by **moondrift** » Oct 22 2006

well, in a similar vein to the first suggestion, maybe an annex region diplomacy option. Like the select land one in the original, but with more chance of success. Maybe a whole region? It would obviously take some serious previous diplomacy and would be based on several factors:

1. Relative miltary strength
2. Cultural/ethnic/religious compatability.
3. CB rating
4. Other diplomatic efforts.

So if you had a stronger military, and were perhaps of the same ethinticity/religion and had several treaties in place (maybe have to be allied first) Then you could actually annex that region as though you had conqured it but with out the associated problems with a newly conquered land.

nghtmre15 · Post by **nghtmre15** » Oct 23 2006

Legend wrote:Can you explain the first one a bit further?

I think I know exactly what he's referring to. In Hearts of Iron 2, you have the option to liberate countries when you control all of the required provinces. The government is favorable to you, and they become your puppet state (they send you surplus resources, are allied to you, help you with research, send you additional troops to support combat, etc...)

I'll illustrate it with these quick screenshots I took. In the first one, this is the Israel-Jordan region before the UK decides to liberate Israel in 1936. It possesses the four required provinces.

This is the menu under which the UK can liberate a nation. New nations appear once the proper provinces are under control (there are some requirements on ideology; from the German provinces, the USA can liberate the Federal Republic of Germany, while the USSR can liberate the German Democratic Republic.)

Here is the end result. The new nation of Israel has been created, it is allied with the UK, it sends any surplus resources to the UK, and the UK holds control over Israeli military units. All internal operations (production, research, espionage, etc...) are controlled by the CPU.

ainsworth74 · Post by **ainsworth74** » Oct 23 2006

This was one of the things I realy wanted, Pupet states, and the like, I would be good if they made it into sr2020.

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Oct 23 2006

Yeah that's the sort of thing. I was also refering to the possiblity of liberating nations from other invaders.

nghtmre15 · Post by **nghtmre15** » Oct 23 2006

dust off wrote:Yeah that's the sort of thing. I was also refering to the possiblity of liberating nations from other invaders.

You mean, have a nation be invaded and conquered, and then have another nation take back control of that area and recreate the original country?

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Oct 23 2006

Yes that's the scenario I was thinking of. But wasa also thinking of taking a country perhaps after a coup or unfavourable gov change and then installing a favourable regime.

nghtmre15 · Post by **nghtmre15** » Oct 23 2006

They all work that way in the above example. The circumstances surrounding the release of a country don't matter to the game. As long as you possess the required provinces, you can release a country, and its government/ministers/etc... will be in line with your country's form of government, along with very favorable diplomatic relations. You are not required to keep that country as your puppet, but are free to release it (example: Allied liberation of France during WW2), whereupon it becomes totally independent of you, but retains the new government until such point as they decide to change it.

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Oct 24 2006

So, how do you become the Supreme Ruler if you are liberating other regions?

We do currently have something similar already built into the game. If you are allied to another region, and you invade territory that was taken by a third region... ownership goes back to the allied country (if loyal). Now, we don't have the same number of choices and options as you have requested but we haven't totally side stepped this aspect of government.

Do you have some real world examples to draw upon?

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Oct 24 2006

So, how do you become the Supreme Ruler if you are liberating other regions?

Could be an option for those of us that get satisfaction playing a long game that is closer to RL. Also if military world domination is the aim this could be used to create friendly state to aid geopolitical plans or create puppets that don't need managing as much but count as conquested Soviet Union style.

Do you have some real world examples to draw upon?

As above the Soviet Union.
Afghanistan, Soviet Union and US alliance of willing.
Kuwait.
Iraq. Don't need to dwell on what could be the upper limits of rebelion.
Chechnia -
WW2 liberations. Especially the government changes in Germany and Japan.
Somalia.
Post WW2 British Empire.

Any others?

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Oct 24 2006

ok, expand on these examples and tie them back to some thoughts on the thread...

how would these examples tie in to gameplay? what would happen if you instate a puppet state? how would this add to gameplay? HOI2 has puppet states but there are many things that it doesn't have that we include in our game. We can't include everything so how often will you want to make puppet states? What are some problems that you can see from creating such a feature in SR2020?

Il Duce · Post by **Il Duce** » Oct 24 2006

One important aspect to creating puppet states would be the containment of your own, and of the puppet states' economy, so that you don't have sudden increases in population, and other perturbations in the economy. You would let the puppet state deal with thier own DAR [under some form of control]. So you wouldn't have to integrate a population that had a GDP that was dramatically different from your 'homeland.' So you wouldn't suddenly have 20% more subscribers to your present socal services programs - or 20% mor consumers eating your food or drinking your water. stuff like that.

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Oct 24 2006

The coolest thing for me personally would be to provide a just cause for conflict in a region that was not high on my list for conquest.

It's also a way to fight wars without unbalancing the map into superstates.

Can't think of any problems at the moment other than higher expectation for the implementation of rebelions.

Uriens · Post by **Uriens** » Oct 25 2006

I was toying with the idea of ability to annex some region. Something in the line of what Germany did with Czechoslovakia at the start of the WWII. However, I have no idea how this would exactly be implemented in game. At least in a way that would not be abusable by player. So, only thing I can do is pass it along and hope someone else knows better how this would work. This is mostly because I'm not very familiar with HOI series and Europa Universalis so people who have played that game may came up with something here.

Another thing I would like to have is to be able to coordinate my war efforts with allies. Something like 'Request attack on [target city]' where AI ally would try to take it if it's he's in position to do it. Or 'Request support at [target city]' where AI ally would send some troops to garrison specified city. Maybe way to request airstrikes, artillery, troop transport or offer to transport AI troops (assuming AI will be able to do it in SR2020). Of course, level of cooperation could depend on your relations with ally and some of these requests may be rejected if those relations are not good enough.