AI vs AI amphibious invasions - USA vs Cuba

[Opthalamia]

Arty =! arty

Mortars have a very low munition demand.

[Gonzar]

I dont think Arty are very good for Amphibious assults. They demand to much in the way of supplies. Same goes for allot of tanks.

Thats mostly right (besides mortars), but in this case the artillery helped the invasion force greatly by hammering the cuban units that tried to close the beachhead. They didn't have many either, only some and it was helpfull i think.
There were no tanks in the invasion force, many INF and RECs, some AA, ART and AT and some engineers. The total amount of units must have been at least 150, they lost about 60 of them in the first week, but by then barracks were available and the invasion force did repair.

[Gonzar]

I am playing a new game as UK. I am two years into the game now and could follow several naval invasion by the AI. I will report them here briefly:

- Taiwan tried several times to land on China. In all cases they were crushed. To this point China didn't tried any naval invasion. No escort here.
- South Korea, still at war with NK and China, tried to launch a naval invasion of China and were also crushed (indeed almost all troop transports were sunk before arriving to the chinese coasts). They were also without escort.

- USA launched also this time a naval invasion of Cuba, but, with much more RECs than INF. The result was a succesfull invasion, but they didn't have enough firepower to complete it. The island is about half cuban and half in US hands.
- A half month later another expedition sailed towards Cuba. I thought they would reinforce the troops already there, but... no. They sailed towards the small island south of La Habana and captured Nueva Gerona.
- No more naval expeditions are being prepared by USA to this point. The front on Cubas Mainland is more or less frozen, but without reinforcements, the cuban forces could reconquer the island in the future, because they still have two land fabrications facilities intact.

Some observations for BG, may be it could be usefull:
- >100 tanks are at the south coast of Florida are trying to reach the cuban front. A transport order could bring them to Cuba (USA has air superiority and many transports available). But it seems the AI don't use/know the sea transport order.
- A reinforcement task force could be introduced (programmed) if a naval invasion has been succesfull.

[Illumination]

I have been following the US-Cuba war with interest in my game. The invasion was thwarted, big time, by cuba, and I did notice a bunch of tanks just sitting in florida doing nothing. War then started between the US and Mexico, and the invasion stalled due to a lack of forces on the Mexican border. After some time, the AI sent the extra tanks in florida to mexico, and are currently seizing swaths of Mexican territory. However, I doubt the US can maintain the pace as their economy is 10 trillion in the hole, with 10 trillion in debt. Their euchered.

Anyway, I think the AI has definitely improved, but it could always be smarter. Thanks BG for the expansion. Its solid work, in spite of MaxRiga's glaring and unyieldingly overzealous criticism. (Max, if you read this, I must say I totally appreciate the role you play in the developers lives, don't get me wrong )

[tkobo]

Dont forget, the tanks cant get there by sea without a pier on the recieving end.

[Gonzar]

Dont forget, the tanks cant get there by sea without a pier on the recieving end.

Yes, i know. In the first invasion they had available piers (Santiago de Cuba and Guantanamo) and didn't tranport any tanks despite having over hundred going up and down in Florida. In this second invasion they don't have any pier available, though, what brings another possible improvement for future versions: let the invasion forces build a pier after having supply and conquering a % of territory (for example). This would be very realistic if one look at real naval invasions.

Another invasion that i could follow:

- China sent many transports and several Destroyers towards South Korea. Very impressive. But... they came to close to Seoul and most ships were sunk by korean artillery and air forces. No ships survived. I felt a really *ouch* for the chinese forces.

[tkobo]

In this second invasion they don't have any pier available, though, what brings another possible improvement for future versions: let the invasion forces build a pier after having supply and conquering a % of territory (for example). This would be very realistic if one look at real naval invasions.

Yes, or add in the temporary pier as a unit or facility .The British and hence the US, use such devices in WW2.


Another invasion that i could follow:

- China sent many transports and several Destroyers towards South Korea. Very impressive. But... they came to close to Seoul and most ships were sunk by korean artillery and air forces. No ships survived. I felt a really *ouch* for the chinese forces.

Yup, the invasion forces ive seen, had little to no protection.So having the AI gain control of at least the water hexes,in the area of the landing, before the landing would be another good step.

[Gonzar]

Update about this second game and the situation in Cuba:

One year later after the second naval invasion that took the small island south of La Habana, USA launched a third (!) naval invasion, with again over 100 units, against Cuba. It was about time, because the hold only 1/4 of the island by then. This third wave landed near La Habana and conquered Cuba in three days. Again a successfull final invasion, this time after three years and three naval invasions.

[Gonzar]

China at war with India launched a naval invasion bordering the indochina peninsula and landing some units in an island east of India (north of Indonesia). They continued towards the India Mainland but got intercepted by indian frigates. They had no escort, so almost the whole invasion force got sunk.
Its interesting because India and China already have a land frontier where they were fighting, but despite that, China tried to open a second front. If they would have had escorts or would have tried to secure the landing zone prior to the invasion launch, they may have succeed. China has lots and lots of ships around their coast (well over 200 i would guess), so it would have been possible for them to send an armada to secure the landing areas. This seem to not have been programmed yet though.

[ollobrains]

NK v South Korea , south korea attempted 2 one near pyonang the other up nera the border both failed but it draw away the defending NK troops and took a lot out so Sth korea 2 months later walked into and took em out capital and all

[tkobo]

Has anyone seen the AI use tanks in a amphib invasion yet ?

[maciekpl]

I'd second the ability to build temporary piers which should take a day or two in game's time (maybe added as unit ability for engineers). Those could for example only accept a single ship at a time. The Allies did use temp. piers in Normandy, they also laid cables through the Channel to pump petrol to the beachhead. At the same time, the defenders should be able to build temporary defences like dragon's teeth that could impede enemy landings.

Also, whenever you sink an enemy ship while they're docked at their pier, the sinking should damage the port. That's what happened in Brest, where hundreds of shipwrecks prevented the port from being used for a long time. The Germans scuttled some ships on purpose to block the entry as well. Not to mention mined ports. The Coalition forces had a lot of trouble using Umm Qasr in Iraq until the mines were cleared.

[Ruges]

(maybe added as unit ability for engineers).

I think you are onto somthing here. Give the bridge making units the ability to act like piers when they move onto a land hex next to the ocean. The effect would act like current sea piers in the ability to provide supplies and load/unload units. (or instead of the current land units, maybe instead give the ability to a new class of ship. We should do some research on what countries are currently doing to perform such actions.

[maciekpl]

Here's a modern example: Elevated Causeway System - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... /elcas.htm

[Gonzar]

Has anyone seen the AI use tanks in a amphib invasion yet ?

No, not yet. I guess it wouldn't make sense for the AI either, seeing how much place they take compared with infantry.

Regarding temporary sea pears in the invasion zone, it would be indeed realistic if a unit could simulate/act like this. But I guess it would be easier for BG just to make them build a normal sea pear, securing first the beachhead and the supplies of course (aka, having conquered one or several cities that act as supply source).