The Flower Defense

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Eric Larsen
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The Flower Defense

Post by Eric Larsen »

I've been intrigued with the AI defense, one which I now call "The Flower Defense". Looks really cute with a small military base as the stamen or pistil (okay I'm biology challenged) with the military units one hex out all the way around as the petals. Usually a stack of AA on the military base with lots of tanks as the petals. Like I said it looks really cute but it is utterly ineffective.

While I like to damage military bases, especially small military bases as opposed to the little military outposts, I try not to destroy them. Hence there's way too much AA on those military bases while there's nothing guarding military goods facilities which I do destroy early on. The AI defense could be improved immensely if AI's parked some AA on every military goods facility. What good are military bases if there are no military goods facilities left?

The other problem with the overly passive Flower Defense is that attacking an AI region is like walking through a field kicking over the flowers one at a time. No concentration of force is a sure way to lose really quick. The AI's would be better served not using the passive Flower Defense in favor of massing more forces at the front early on. Because of the Flower Defense the AI's are completely incompetent on the offense because once again it does not concentrate it's forces for a victory but dribbles them to the front for a sitzkrieg.

What's astounding is the AI's don't use the Flower Defense to protect their capitals. South America has the same two garrison units that it started the game with over two years earlier, not one stinking reinforcement to guard it's all important capital. Any scenarios with that silly victory condition of moving a command vehicle near a capital are just gimmick games as the AI doesn't defend it's capital properly. Atleast with a Flower Defense around the capital an AI would have a better chance of guarding it's capital or of quickly recapturing it if captured.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen
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Uriens
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Post by Uriens »

Add to that the fact that AI won't reinforce cities or other installations with anti-aircraft units. It will place artillery and other combat units but not anti-aircraft. If that is fixed, the 'flower defense' will be lessened.

I think those units around AI bases are essentialy units that AI has no idea what to do with (anti aircraft, supply trucks etc.).
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Legend
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Post by Legend »

What level of difficulty are you playing on? (The AI actually becomes more active at harder levels.)
Baloogan
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Post by Baloogan »

Could we have 2 difficulty settings? One for economic hardness and one for military hardness.
Missiles!! Nukes!
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

That is an idea being widely discussed amongst the dev team.

Not sure it we'll make that change in the existing engine, but we certainly seem to be in agreement here that for future versions seperate diplomacy/military difficulty levels would be a good idea.
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

oooo. Pretty flowers. Lets blow them to hell. :lol: Really though i actually enjoy the "flowers" they give my arty alot of practice. But I admit i wish they come after me once and awhile.
In war destroy everything even the livestock.
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Uriens
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Post by Uriens »

Balthagor wrote:That is an idea being widely discussed amongst the dev team.

Not sure it we'll make that change in the existing engine, but we certainly seem to be in agreement here that for future versions seperate diplomacy/military difficulty levels would be a good idea.
Would it be possible to implement military very hard AI into normal AI without separating difficulty levels? 'Normal' AI is almost brain dead and really isn't a challenge. On very hard it's everyone against you with WM favoring heavily AI regions. I like difficulty but really hate 'all against human' type of games. However, I really did see very hard AI doing things I thought he wasn't capable of (like launching major offensives) and having THAT as normal AI would help alot. BTW, normal AI is really not any challenge and increasing it's military abilities to 'very hard' wont make game too difficult.
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George Geczy
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Post by George Geczy »

We could look at toughening up the military AI for the 'Normal' level, though for newbies many scenarios are actually rather difficult - it's only when you've spent a bit of time with the game that you develop tactics that minimize the AI's danger.

The multi-select difficulty (different for mil & dip difficulties) is a good one but won't make it into the next Update.

Also, regarding the earlier comments about the 'flower defense' and AI capitals - I've noticed this as well, and it's not supposed to be that way. Turns out there was a bug that prevented the AI from re-inforcing Capitals and large cities properly. This has been addressed for the next Update.

Reinforcing Industries is a trickier problem, because they are not close-combat areas; not ideal for infantry defense. And armor is a bit expensive to use sitting around in industrial hexes.

-- George.
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Uriens
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Post by Uriens »

Newbies actually have easy level for that. I was thinking something in the lines of following:

Very easy - no change necessary I think (never really tried playing on that level though)
Easy - Military AI as you have on normal now
Normal - Military AI that plays like its on very hard now but no penalties or bonuses to either human or AI should be applied (playing on even terms if you will)
Hard and Very hard levels - Military AI on Very hard as well but human handicapped diplomatically vs AI (as it is currently). Maybe even introduce some economy boost for AI on very hard (cheating if you will, for max challenge)

This way both newbies and vets will have something to play with.

Good news about that bug you found regarding AI reinforcing his Capitals/Cities. :-)

edit: I agree that multi-select difficulty is best solution but I'm hoping this one is easier to implement and that it would make it into next update (basically you have all the stuff there alredy, just need to rearrange it, at least I hope).
Eric Larsen
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Getting Tougher

Post by Eric Larsen »

George Geczy wrote:Also, regarding the earlier comments about the 'flower defense' and AI capitals - I've noticed this as well, and it's not supposed to be that way. Turns out there was a bug that prevented the AI from re-inforcing Capitals and large cities properly. This has been addressed for the next Update.

Reinforcing Industries is a trickier problem, because they are not close-combat areas; not ideal for infantry defense. And armor is a bit expensive to use sitting around in industrial hexes.
George,
I'm glad that the flower defense is going to get stomped out of existence except hopefully at the capitals where it does belong. I've been playing at the normal level learning the ropes but now am ready to crank up the difficulty level to the max. I really wish the AI's would stop researching or making aircraft carriers as they are just expensive cannon fodder and they do not know how to use them except as overly expensive troop transports but since the AI doesn't do amphibious operations they are just a waste. Make the AI research Facility Defenses, what better way to strengthen the AI defense of facilities than by these useful research items the AI doesn't research? Also those spiffy infantry and hard target defense and offense boosters would be a good choice for the AI, they sure work well for me.

I've noticed a marked improvement in the AI economy when I give it all the economy/research/medical/transportation boosters I have that I can give. Too bad there are so many untradeable economy boosters and yet no military research items aren't tradeable. I've checked the AI play and noticed way too many freefall bombs that never seem to get used even when the AI's are at war, constant war for years. I noticed that they were chock full of crappy freefall bombs so when they research a new missile there's no room for them to build the new better missiles. Too bad the AI never met a military or missile unit it didn't like, it sure would make them better if they knew how to scrap old garbage in favor in new good stuff. Plus they should have the Commerce Minister have the message up to stock up on military goods rather than selling off their whole lot even during wartime. They should be saving up their military goods during wartime not selling it. It was also sad to see the AI's not researching any techs at all, making sure the AI's have plenty of research items would help a lot. I'm hoping I see a better AI in the future update plus at the highest level.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen
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