Weapon Range Fans

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tonystowe
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Weapon Range Fans

#1 Post by tonystowe » Apr 18 2006

I have the most current updated version of SR2010 and am have not found anything allowing me to make a selection to show range fans of the selected unit.

This isn't necessary for all units, but it would certainly allow for easier planning when developing an indepth air defense and anti tank strategy.

This isn't a show stopper by no means but this addition would make my games better. Currently I have to use the Combat Advisor on ever unit to ensure that are correctly postioned (when I go into that level of detail) and that consumed alot of time.

Any comments to add to this request?

Tony

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#2 Post by Legend » Apr 18 2006

We did plan to include range circles in SR2010 but they didn't make it in the final cut. What types of range circles would you like to have seen? What should happen if you select different unit types?

Should we show spotting, travel range or firing range?

Any ideas?

tonystowe
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#3 Post by tonystowe » Apr 18 2006

:-? Do you guys ever sleep? Thanks for the quick reply.

It would be most helpful to see range fans in the form of a radius around the unit (or selected units) for the following:

Missile and Artillery (all variants)
Air Defense (all variants)
Anti-Tank (all variants)

Anyone else?

Two range fans (or circles I suppose):
** Green representing Detection range
** Red for engagement ranges.

For example, when creating my air defense barrier I will emplace 1-3 AD Units with 100+ km ranges in a cluster to protect an area. On the threat side of their deployment I will additional emplace additional AD units whose engagement ranges are less than 100 km. Always trying to maximize the number of AD units that may engagement any enemy aircraft.

Using the US equipment as an example:
Equip Spot Engage Low Med High QTY in AD circle
MEADS 120 200 32 40 3 2
Patriot 100 160 29 37 2 3
Hercules 100 140 15 24 2 4-6
Hawk III 35 40 68 16 - 8-12

Now looking at the above stats closer are the Spot and Engage distances correct? The numbers appear to be reversed as these asset surely would detect the aircraft before being able to shoot it down. My mind wonders once again. . .

Anyway, The MEADS would be positioned 50-60 kms apart giving them an overlapping coverage and 120 kms front the border . Towards the threat I would then place the Patriot systems so that they would be positioned approximately 1/3 the distance from end to end of the MEAD coverage (now covering 180-200 km across) and forward of the MEAD systems - effectively pushing my coverage into enemy territory for detection. In front of the Patriots I then position the Hercules systems, then the Hawk III systems and finally any number of dismounted variants of AD coverage.

I hope that made sense. By having a selection to show the range fans for the Detection range and the engagement range I would be able to more quickly set this up.

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#4 Post by BigStone » Apr 19 2006

Legend wrote:

Should we show spotting, travel range or firing range?
I think only firing range will do... and if you wanna use more
data color them , like tony already said, and use filters otherwise
it would be very cluttered..
NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

tonystowe
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#5 Post by tonystowe » Apr 20 2006

Legend wrote:We did plan to include range circles in SR2010 but they didn't make it in the final cut. What types of range circles would you like to have seen? What should happen if you select different unit types?

Should we show spotting, travel range or firing range?

Any ideas?

I played today with this subject line in mind and I have to say that two colored circles, with the unit in the center, will suffice. There isn't a need for the travel distance however the units' spotting and engagement ranges would be very helpful. The only caveat to this is the respective distance that each hex represents and how the data is correctly shown on the map. It wouldn't make sense to show an infantry units Armor engagement range of 7km when the hex distance equals 32km or whatever. However, this would apply fantastically to any ground, and possibly naval, unit in the game that has a range greater than the base distance of a hex for any specific scenario.

When I select any single unit or group of units and right click, an checkbox or radio button could be available to show range fans (or whatever you might call them). Once selected, each unit will show its respective range circles, Engagement range in Red and Spotting Range in yellow or green or whatever color best fits the current gaming background.

Another choice might be to have the range circles appear for a few seconds once a unit has been selected.

More later.

Great game btw! I am definitely hooked on this one and your team has done a fantastic job with the product as a whole!!!!

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#6 Post by Balthagor » Apr 20 2006

tonystowe wrote:Now looking at the above stats closer are the Spot and Engage distances correct? The numbers appear to be reversed as these asset surely would detect the aircraft before being able to shoot it down...
They are not reveresed, but there could be some errors. I'm confident on the values of those units but I'll take another look. The MEADS is neither correct or incorrect, there was no data to gather on it. It is too new, none of the sites give real stats yet.

In either case, it is actually common for the associated radar ranges to be shorter than the attack range for AA, these units depend on third party spotting to reach their full effective ranges. Can't say if this is 100% accurate, we made some changes on spotting ranges to balance gameplay and because spotting is a grey area. IRL it depends on target size, something we cannot factor in.

Also, many land based unit spotting ranges were entirly made up as there simply was no data available.
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#7 Post by Legend » Apr 21 2006

I like the idea of hiding/showing the circles when the unit is selected. It could go in the advanced orders window to allow players quick access to this feature. The mention of a delay sounds like an interesting idea as well - either a delay to appear or delay to hide.

Mentioned also is a way to tell distance more easily - I currently use the side panel CTRL+SHIFT+T and when I've selected on hex - and move my mouse away - the distance changes. A better way to show this is something I would like to see.

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#8 Post by tonystowe » Apr 21 2006

Balthagor wrote: Also, many land based unit spotting ranges were entirly made up as there simply was no data available.
Spotting ranges for ground troops are limited to the equipment organic to that unit type and those ranges surely would not exceed 6-10km at most.

This is the reason for the Ground radar units (which the in game version is fine) and more so the aerial radar units.

In terms of the AD, AT, artillery and missile units I was always under the impression that their spotting/tracking ranges would exceed their capabilities to engage.

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#9 Post by tonystowe » Apr 21 2006

Legend wrote:I like the idea of hiding/showing the circles when the unit is selected. It could go in the advanced orders window to allow players quick access to this feature. The mention of a delay sounds like an interesting idea as well - either a delay to appear or delay to hide.
Legend, in all of the wargames that I have used with the military we have simply selected a unit and its associated range fans would automatically show. In a recent game the range circles remained shown for a period of seconds (probably 30 secs and the player had an option selection to change this to "constant") before slowly disappearing.
Legend wrote:Mentioned also is a way to tell distance more easily - I currently use the side panel CTRL+SHIFT+T and when I've selected on hex - and move my mouse away - the distance changes. A better way to show this is something I would like to see.
Is this possible - I position the cursor over a hex; I press the CTRL key and move my mouse to get the distance.

By pressing the control key (or whichever key is ideal) the program recognizes the desire to obtain distance information. When I move the mouse the distance changes. Quick and simple.

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#10 Post by Legend » Apr 21 2006

tonystowe wrote:
Legend wrote:Mentioned also is a way to tell distance more easily - I currently use the side panel CTRL+SHIFT+T and when I've selected on hex - and move my mouse away - the distance changes. A better way to show this is something I would like to see.
Is this possible - I position the cursor over a hex; I press the CTRL key and move my mouse to get the distance.

By pressing the control key (or whichever key is ideal) the program recognizes the desire to obtain distance information. When I move the mouse the distance changes. Quick and simple.
Not a bad idea... I tried it out and didn't find the CTRL key to do anything when you just have a hex selected.

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#11 Post by tonystowe » Apr 21 2006

Legend,

I was wondering if it would be of use to show the radar ranges for the associated equipment like the E-2C, AWAC, JStars, UAV's, etc??

In addition, and for strategic planning, I can see a use for having an option, or quick key selection, that would show all of my air defense coverage. Once pressing the quick key all air defense units would have their range circles appear on the screen. Their would have to be some transparency to allow each to be seen.

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#12 Post by Squigbunny » Jun 22 2006

Agree with tonystowe. These range circles would be very helpful. I would also add one for aircraft range.

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#13 Post by tonystowe » Jun 23 2006

While thinking on this subject I remembered a game, however not its name, from years back that allowed the player to show the Range Circles by pressing the key combination of CTRL + R (I am not suggesting coding this key combination for SR). Upon pressing the keys the range circles for all units would appear on the screen for the primary use of the unit and an attribute given to the range circles included color coding for quick reference.

The major caveat is the number of units displayed in that game were far less than what SR can display at one time.

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If something of this nature is hardcoded into SR then I believe the following would be a possibility:

Range circles can be applied for the following items:

1. Ground units - Radar/visual range, weapon range.

2. Air Unit - Aircraft Combat Radius, Radar/visual range, weapon range.

3. Naval Units - Ship range until empty, radar/visual range, weapon range. For Aircraft carriers it would show its onboard aircraft ranges only when aircraft are stationed on it and when the Aircraft key combination was shown.

I do not believe that anyone would be interested in a Movement Range Circle for ground forces, however aircraft and naval forces would be of interest.

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Color codes: Red for Weapon Range; Blue for Radar/Visual Range; Green for Movement/Acft Radius range

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To minimize system load three key combinations could be assigned in order to filter only the unit type of interest (Ground, Air, Naval). In this example, CTRL + G for Ground units; CTRL + A for Aircraft; (you guessed it) CTRL +N for naval units.

When the player selects CTRL + G, all deployed ground units, radar facilities, air defense facilities, etc will have the coded color ring appear around it showing its radar/visual range and its primary weapon range. Weapon ranges less than one hex out from a unit should not be displayed. If possible, when like-units are stacked (say 4x Artillery units) then only one range circle would appear for those units to minimize system load.

Tony

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#14 Post by Squigbunny » Jun 26 2006

To Tony

Not Harpoon classic 97 perchance? :-)

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