Inflation, employment, gdc/p

[Aaberg]

Please feel free to kick in the head of there is another thread in which this discussion should be taken (i looked but couldn't find it).

Point: Employment and gdc/p seems to linked almost directly to each other.

This will not allow you to raise the gdc/p without lowering your employment .

Now if a country where moving from agricultural to industrial or even to research, this should mean a higher gdc/p and probably also a higher inflation, but not necessarily a higher employment.

I havent really got any solutions (but i will get back on this), i mainly wanted to hear other views (in general im not that interested in a 100% realistic game, but mostly in what improves playability).

[Aaberg]

The_blinde_one:

Also this will all change (according to BG) if they implement the new economic improvements meant for update 3, they will allow the region to actually grow economicly, (this simply means that they will give dynamic gdp/c settings, currently it all just looks at what ur STARTING situation is, but with the new improvements, according to what I think, they will allow ur STARTING situation to be obsolete and take a new starting situation and constantly update it throughout the game's course or atleast thats how I think they are going to do it, this is basicly what I did in the mapeditor.

I can't believe i didn't read this ealier.

In other words just forget what i posted above. I will wait to see what Update 3, will offer

[The_Blind_One]

Right

Anyways yes almost entirely are gdp/c and unemployment and inflation linked to each other, there is some slight variation thanks to efficiency investment (I think), but that's all, and yes every dollar u increase ur gdp/c u are garantueed a rise in inflation and even lower unemployment, thanks to efficiency this can be reduced slightly.

But my belief is....even with optimal efficiency spending. I'd still rather have factory's than to even spend a dime on efficiency, my belief is that with efficiency u might have a gdp/c of 30.000 but ur NET gain (money u have left every day) will be something like 500.000 M for example, but with NO efficiency investments and a gdp/c of 27.500 ur net gain could be 1.000.000 M. and I'd still rather have that 1 Billion than that 0.5 billion net gain. GDP/c can go away, i'd rather have nice net gains

And this game is all about net gains

[Aaberg]

Well after playing all weekend, i have made a couple of observations:
Playing as Poland in Europe-scenario:
- While my gdp/c was dropping (in the early months), so was my unemployment, which implies that these things aren't a directly link as one would think.
- gdp/c seems to be calculated as :(Income+ trade surplus )/ population

Edit:That would be the target value.

Is this is true it would explain, why it very often seems as if these 2 are linked directly, but this is probably not completly true.

An example would be, if you cut back on corporate taxes: This should lower your income, but help your efficiency and thus increase your trade surplus, in the long run it should raise your gdp/c and your net gain (without affecting your unemployment).

What troubles me is that i can't seem to find any way to calculate my unemployment.

Regarding effeciency investments:
I always spend money on effeciency investment, but i must admit i haven't done any tests on whether or not these are worth it. My reason for doing this is that it seem most logical to me, if less factories would mean less employment. Also effeciency investments helps lower cost/unit, which would increase your net gains.

Well a bit longwinded, and no real conclusions
I hope to get a bit of testing done tonight.

[Aaberg]

- gdp/c seems to be calculated as :(Income+ trade surplus )/ population

Well it didn't take many seconds to prove this wrong, allthough there seems to be some approximate relation, but this might very well be the other way around (i.e income is depend on gdp/c not the other way around, which would also make more sense).

[The_Blind_One]

- While my gdp/c was dropping (in the early months), so was my unemployment, which implies that these things aren't a directly link as one would think.

Actually u are wrong, although YES ur unemployment is dropping, it's only acting according to ur gdp/c, the gdp/c of poland is set TO high for the current production to hold but the unenmployment was set to HIGH aswell and goes back to the point where it should be according to the gdp/c level.

u are looking to shallow at these numbers...u need to wait till everything evens out and the economy doesn't change anymore, untill it's stabile, that's when u can test it, as soon as it's stabile and then any adjustments u make that increase ur gdp/c will decrease ur unemployment and increase inflation.

pfff ur claims are based on nothingness, I can start a game in the mapeditor aswell and give my region an production level exactly that of my gdp/c level, and give myself an unemployment of 50% and then it will drop aswell eventhough my gdp/c won't grow, this is because ur unemployment will readjust itself to the current gdp/c level

Please only post about the economic model when u actually know in the slightest way the code works.

gpd/c is based on the total amount of money in circulation in ur economy multiplied by a number of factors (such as social services, defcon, goverment type, etc).

It's actually all cumilative as it is in real life , producing one $ more doesn't actually constitute itself in one $ more, depending on multipliers and spending that one $ more can become easily $6 or more

Because that buck u gain in production gets circulated in more wages, but besides wages it increases ur demand for other products, it increases the costs of social services and research, wich inturn also create more jobs and more pay and so the thing continues and continues and money gains more value

[Aaberg]

Hey im sorry i didn't mean to offend anyone. I was kinda hoping for a little more friendly tone and im sorry if it came out, as if i held the truth in my hands

Im not claiming (and still isn't) to know anything just posting my toughts, in the hope of starting a discussion that could lead to a better understanding of how these things work.

Enough rambling from me, I shall return, when i think i know something new

[The_Blind_One]

Hey im sorry i didn't mean to offend anyone. I was kinda hoping for a little more friendly tone and im sorry if it came out, as if i held the truth in my hands

Im not claiming (and still isn't) to know anything just posting my toughts, in the hope of starting a discussion that could lead to a better understanding of how these things work.

Enough rambling from me, I shall return, when i think i know something new

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean to attack u, but I have been writing alot of stuff on the economy, and I hugely think the economy needs a big overhaul...and I'm sorta trying to raise the devs awareness on that , the model of this economy is really not to so hard once u get it, yes the formula and stuff are all complicated, but u really don't need a formula once u get the feeling of the economy, I can instantly tune in on my economy.

One thing I wanted to say though. GDP/c doesn't neccecarely mean ur population is richer, on contrair, read: GROSS domestic production.

Because it's GROSS it doesn't mean ur profitable in anyway, I'd rather have half the gdp/c and be profitable then to have a big gdp/c and be utterly profitless, and actually using a high profitability technique keeps ur unemployment high and ur inflation low meaning even more profits! And because ur unemployment is lower u can easily gain military recruits or expand ur warmachine to a nice level

[Aaberg]

Yup, noticed that as well.

I always tend to scrap my "low tech" industries when my employement gets close to 5%, but again i haven't done any calculations as to whether this is a good idea or not (after all they might be more profitable than Consumer goods etc.).

So just to make sure i understand this right:

- Each country has a starting gdp/c (not necessarily the one you see in the beginning of a scenario), which will result in 5% unemployment and this can not be changed
- As your gdp/c rises or falls this will make your unemployment fall/rise.

So as far as production goes the only this you can do is to maximize profit.

Then do we have any way of figuring out how GDP is calculated ?

[The_Blind_One]

You've almost got it right

Yup, noticed that as well.

I always tend to scrap my "low tech" industries when my employement gets close to 5%, but again i haven't done any calculations as to whether this is a good idea or not (after all they might be more profitable than Consumer goods etc.).

That is correct, also u must note that ur unemployment is really not that badly effected by wich type of industry, it's determined by the total value of the goods produced (not regarding profitability of them).

So if u have 10 timber plants producing the same amount of timber in value compared to a just one consumer plant, then both (practicly, efficiency or so I have been told effects this) practicly employ the same amount of people. That's because their gdp is added to the pool, and the gdp is what determines the unemployment and inflation.

So just to make sure i understand this right:

- Each country has a starting gdp/c (not necessarily the one you see in the beginning of a scenario), which will result in 5% unemployment and this can not be changed

Sort of, each region starts with an ''INITIAL GDP/C'', this one is adjusted for each region seperately and it does not change during the maps course, this ''INITIAL GDP/C'' is seperated from the ''REAL GDP/C'' of the game. The real GDP/C is what u see when u go and check ur gdp/c in the game. REAL GDP/C and INITIAL GDP/C are seperated, the only way they are connected is that ur INITIAL GDP/C is the gdp/c u start with one on day 0 (yes because on day 1 it already calculates further), ur INITIAL GDP/C settings already dictate how much investment is given to certain sectors, like if ur INITIAL GDP/C is lower than ur costs for research is lower aswell and vica versa, so INITIAL GDP/C slightly dictate the original position ur economy will be in, regardless of the real economic position.

REAL GDP/C is calculated by the total amount of money in circulation, certain things wich increase the circulation (note: circulation doesn't mean profitability) are; industry's, research investments, military spending, and other modifiers such as efficiency, research developments, goverment type, taxation (more taxation lowers ur gdp/c) and other things, generally anything wich pumps money into ur economy.

REAL GDP/C will eventually effect your inflation and unemployment. you see. While your INITIAL GDP/C might be 25.000, ur REAL GDP/C might just be 20.000. Your inflation and unemployment are effected by ur INITIAL INFLATION number and ur INITIAL INFLATION number effected by the difference with the INITIAL GDP/C and the REAL GDP/C.

Your INFLATION and UNEMPLOYMENT modifiers are handled by the % the REAL GDP/C has over the INITIAL GDP/C. The norm is set at 80%, that means if ur REAL GDP/C is worth 80% of the INITIAL GDP/C your ingame gdp/c (that u read) isn't going up nor down. Your ingame gdp/c will adjust to your real gdp/c in time.

Depending on the % difference between your REAL GDP/C and ur INITIAL GDP/C will determine ur corrected INFLATION and UNEMPLOYMENT.

But, if your REAL GDP/C and your INITIAL GDP/C are exactly the same then your INFLATION and UNEMPLOYMENT will stay as they are.

Then do we have any way of figuring out how GDP is calculated ?

sure ya can, just calculate the total amount of money circulating in your economy. If you easily want to see what your economy is you can just check the log files. Do know that if your economy is growing, it will grow because it's growing. Because your gdp/c rises, your costs for military, research and other things will also increase, further increasing your gdp/c.

Hope I sort of helped u

I know this is hard to chew and swallow down

EDIT: One thing I like to do in game's where u don't need the domestic approval is just to cut all social safety net (not social spending), this is because it sucks up money and although yes it releases it back into your gdp/c it isn't profitable, so if your going to spend money, atleast make the money do something back for you and besides, if it's doing something back for you, it naturally also translated into more gdp/c and this already makes the population more happy substituting largely the social safetynet