[quote="tkobo"]
i can rent a 3 bedroom home in parts of Pa for $400 a month. In other parts of PA that same size home could cost $800 a month.
One place i lived in NJ i payed $600 a month for a one bedroom apartment.
Look at the inflation rate during the claifornia gold rush IN california and compare it to the inflation rate in NJ at the same time.
Nothing proves you wrong better than this.
[/quote]
You really have no concept of economics. Real estate is a special case -- land cannot move, and the price of land depends on local supply and demand factors combined with governmental policies. Similarly, basic goods cost more in cities than rural areas, because the price of rent to have the store to sell the goods is higher.
Even with respect to goods, certain goods become more or less valuable over time -- as the result of supply and demand rather than inflation. I'm willing to bet the price of sillicon is much more expensive today than 20 years ago. That's not because of inflation, that's because demand for sillicon-products (computers) has skyrocketed. Over the same time, the price of other goods has fallen -- like TVs. These supply and demand factors even each other out.
That's not inflation.
Inflation is differences in the price-level of goods. Inflation is the persistent INCREASE in the general price level of goods. That is caused ONLY by expanding the money supply.
Basic econ:
Velocity * Money Supply = GDP * Inflation.
Since velocity is generally constant (absent once in a generation changes like ATMs), inflation is caused only by the money supply.
Currency?
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dust off
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Koheleth wrote:
Anyway, it seems that both sides of the debate have merit. Same currency as an economic powerhouse like US helps stabalise inflation; but does not mean exact same inflation. Panama has US$ for some time, but its inflation has been lower for some time. See link.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... +inflation
Finally, economics is not just about money, its about unpredictable, sometimes irrational people too, making all-or-nothing statements somewhat untenable.
Don't forget silicon cosmetic implants- that can use alot.I'm willing to bet the price of sillicon is much more expensive today than 20 years ago. That's not because of inflation, that's because demand for sillicon-products (computers) has skyrocketed.
Anyway, it seems that both sides of the debate have merit. Same currency as an economic powerhouse like US helps stabalise inflation; but does not mean exact same inflation. Panama has US$ for some time, but its inflation has been lower for some time. See link.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... +inflation
Finally, economics is not just about money, its about unpredictable, sometimes irrational people too, making all-or-nothing statements somewhat untenable.
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Balthagor
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tkobo
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"You really have no concept of economics."
Well, one of us doesnt thats for sure.Im betting its the one who puts all his belief in a "THEORY" taught him, instead of looking at the facts.
Inflation rates as declared by the feds for jan 2000 thru roughly dec 2004.
"
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Ave
2004 1.93% 1.69% 1.74% 2.29% 3.05% 3.27% 2.99% 2.65% 2.54% 3.19% 3.52% 3.26%
2003 2.60% 2.98% 3.02% 2.22% 2.06% 2.11% 2.11% 2.16% 2.32% 2.04% 1.77% 1.88% 2.27%
2002 1.14% 1.14% 1.48% 1.64% 1.18% 1.07% 1.46% 1.80% 1.51% 2.03% 2.20% 2.38% 1.59%
2001 3.73% 3.53% 2.92% 3.27% 3.62% 3.25% 2.72% 2.72% 2.65% 2.13% 1.90% 1.55% 2.83%
2000 2.74% 3.22% 3.76% 3.07% 3.19% 3.73% 3.66% 3.41% 3.45% 3.45% 3.45% 3.39% 3.38% "
Inflation rate as declared by the state of connecitcutt during june of 2000
8.1%
Geee, i guess the whole state of conneticuut government was wrong- i guess they were only really facing an inflation rate of 3.27 % as declared by the feds using the consumer price index and the calculation it is used in ------((B - A)/A)*100
Which has been the same since circa 1984.
Oh and for those who dont know -the consumer price index is made every month when the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) surveys prices around the country for a basket of products and publishes the results as a number.
These numbers start out unique to each area of the country surveyed and are than combined/averaged to form the countrys number.
Now dont be mislead by "a basket of products" -becuase this same system is used on houses/realistate which would require VERY large baskets indeed.
Why do they do this around the entire country instead of just one area of the country even though its the same dollar at all places surveyed?Well thats simple,because the costs in the areas are different and one of the reasons they are is that the inflation rates in those areas are different becuase the conditions in those areas are different.
IE different pay scales,diff job availability,diff amount of available goods,etc....
I also noticed how you totally ignored the easist to see example of how wrong you are.
Inflation rate in California vs inflation rate in NJ during the gold rush.
But dont worry, i gave you another example above---ie the connecticutt state inflation rate vs the Fed inflation rate- for the same time period of course.
The jump in infaltion in the example above for connecticutt was "caused" mainly by local energy costs and a tight labor market.IE availablity of goods ,jobs and a raise in pay rate.
The Con inflation rate above by the way,was declared by the Connecticutt Economy which is a Connecticutt University publication that moniters the states economy for the state.
Well, one of us doesnt thats for sure.Im betting its the one who puts all his belief in a "THEORY" taught him, instead of looking at the facts.
Inflation rates as declared by the feds for jan 2000 thru roughly dec 2004.
"
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Ave
2004 1.93% 1.69% 1.74% 2.29% 3.05% 3.27% 2.99% 2.65% 2.54% 3.19% 3.52% 3.26%
2003 2.60% 2.98% 3.02% 2.22% 2.06% 2.11% 2.11% 2.16% 2.32% 2.04% 1.77% 1.88% 2.27%
2002 1.14% 1.14% 1.48% 1.64% 1.18% 1.07% 1.46% 1.80% 1.51% 2.03% 2.20% 2.38% 1.59%
2001 3.73% 3.53% 2.92% 3.27% 3.62% 3.25% 2.72% 2.72% 2.65% 2.13% 1.90% 1.55% 2.83%
2000 2.74% 3.22% 3.76% 3.07% 3.19% 3.73% 3.66% 3.41% 3.45% 3.45% 3.45% 3.39% 3.38% "
Inflation rate as declared by the state of connecitcutt during june of 2000
8.1%
Geee, i guess the whole state of conneticuut government was wrong- i guess they were only really facing an inflation rate of 3.27 % as declared by the feds using the consumer price index and the calculation it is used in ------((B - A)/A)*100
Which has been the same since circa 1984.
Oh and for those who dont know -the consumer price index is made every month when the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) surveys prices around the country for a basket of products and publishes the results as a number.
These numbers start out unique to each area of the country surveyed and are than combined/averaged to form the countrys number.
Now dont be mislead by "a basket of products" -becuase this same system is used on houses/realistate which would require VERY large baskets indeed.
Why do they do this around the entire country instead of just one area of the country even though its the same dollar at all places surveyed?Well thats simple,because the costs in the areas are different and one of the reasons they are is that the inflation rates in those areas are different becuase the conditions in those areas are different.
IE different pay scales,diff job availability,diff amount of available goods,etc....
I also noticed how you totally ignored the easist to see example of how wrong you are.
Inflation rate in California vs inflation rate in NJ during the gold rush.
But dont worry, i gave you another example above---ie the connecticutt state inflation rate vs the Fed inflation rate- for the same time period of course.
The jump in infaltion in the example above for connecticutt was "caused" mainly by local energy costs and a tight labor market.IE availablity of goods ,jobs and a raise in pay rate.
The Con inflation rate above by the way,was declared by the Connecticutt Economy which is a Connecticutt University publication that moniters the states economy for the state.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM
Chuckle TM
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tkobo
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Steelsky
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From: http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/glossary.aspBalthagor wrote:Warning: I know nothing about economics
Don't many European Union countries all use the same currency (Euro) and have different inflation levels...?
Inflation
The average rate of increase in prices. When economists speak of inflation as an economic problem, they generally mean a persistent increase in the general price level over a period of time, resulting in a decline in a currency's purchasing power. Inflation is usually measured as a percentage increase in the consumer price index.
Consumer price index (CPI)
Measure of price changes, produced by Statistics Canada on a monthly basis. It measures the retail prices of a "shopping basket" of about 300 goods and services, including food, housing, transportation, clothing and recreation.
----------
Given that information I think that inflation is not related to currency only but how much that currency will buy in a given place, if you want to get into extreme detail I guess it can be said to fluctuate on a much finer scale than that of nations.
/Steelsky - Who is not a Master of Economics but works in an Investment Bank and knows how to use Google
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Iceman
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I'm Currently completing my major in Micro-Economics. Technicaly, this is more of a macro question, but I may be able to shed some light on the matter.
Generally, inflation represents a decrease in the purchasing power of a given unit of currency. Economic growth is usually the cause (via wage rises etc), although the goverment increasing the money supply also results in increased inflation (See Argentina and 1920's Germany's hyperinflation)
Different regions within countries often have different inflation rates, this usually being due to different local economic conditions. The differing inflation rates between states that is published by state tresuarys is not nessesarily a good measure of inflation, as it is not taken over a large enough population base to be accurate in the short term (However some states are obvious exceptions to this, such as california. However these larger states usually have inflation which is closer in line with inflation for the whole economy)
One of the reasons why many countries voted to adopt the euro was to help standardise inflation. However, inflationary differences definetly still ocour. It does not help a Parisian if meat is cheaper in budapest, as they can't exactly drive thousands of kilometeres to by groceries. However supermarkets it paris will begin to purchase meat from bulgaria, which softens the extent of inflationary pressure.
I guess the short answer is yes, inflation can vary between regions using the same currency, however inflation (and its lesser seen cousin deflation) will be far less severe compared to the alternative where areas use seperate currencys and needed to exchange in order to purchase goods. This financial security is essential for large economys.
In game terms, whilst everything is listed in world market dollars, perhaps this can be an aproximation of the local currency, which could help account for vastly different economic conditions, so in effect, the FOREX (foreign exchange) market does exist, however it is not something the player is able to directly monitor or influence, it is reflected in price inflation levels.
Besides, the FOREX market is a really dry subject. Lets just stick to cruise missiles yah?
Generally, inflation represents a decrease in the purchasing power of a given unit of currency. Economic growth is usually the cause (via wage rises etc), although the goverment increasing the money supply also results in increased inflation (See Argentina and 1920's Germany's hyperinflation)
Different regions within countries often have different inflation rates, this usually being due to different local economic conditions. The differing inflation rates between states that is published by state tresuarys is not nessesarily a good measure of inflation, as it is not taken over a large enough population base to be accurate in the short term (However some states are obvious exceptions to this, such as california. However these larger states usually have inflation which is closer in line with inflation for the whole economy)
One of the reasons why many countries voted to adopt the euro was to help standardise inflation. However, inflationary differences definetly still ocour. It does not help a Parisian if meat is cheaper in budapest, as they can't exactly drive thousands of kilometeres to by groceries. However supermarkets it paris will begin to purchase meat from bulgaria, which softens the extent of inflationary pressure.
I guess the short answer is yes, inflation can vary between regions using the same currency, however inflation (and its lesser seen cousin deflation) will be far less severe compared to the alternative where areas use seperate currencys and needed to exchange in order to purchase goods. This financial security is essential for large economys.
In game terms, whilst everything is listed in world market dollars, perhaps this can be an aproximation of the local currency, which could help account for vastly different economic conditions, so in effect, the FOREX (foreign exchange) market does exist, however it is not something the player is able to directly monitor or influence, it is reflected in price inflation levels.
Besides, the FOREX market is a really dry subject. Lets just stick to cruise missiles yah?
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George Geczy
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Thanks Iceman for the discussion. Yeah, this is not something that people want to spend a great deal of mental energy contemplating, since I'm sure even a room full of accredited Economists couldn't agree on these things.
The basic design of economic model in SR2010 is very "EU"-centric - a common currency model, but regions with differing economic pressures. The inflation/deflation issues in individual SR2010 regions are also generally "short term" effects, and in fact in the mid-term the World Commodity Market itself will provide a stabilizing factor - for example, if a single region has a super-hot economy and suffers a high inflation rate, after a year or two it will suddenly start to find that its cost to produce goods will make it less competitive and therefore export markets (and profits on exports) will deteriorate. As well, consumers determine their satisfaction with the price of goods (such as food) based on the World baseline prices; if a region's inflation causes it to start charging domestic consumers much more than the world standard, people will both reduce their consumption and start to become unhappy about it.
SR2010's engine isn't designed to run a 50-year cycle of economic activity, but for a 5 or 10 year span I think it makes a pretty good approximation of many of the factors that would effect regional issues (such as inflation, unemployment, etc).
-- George.
The basic design of economic model in SR2010 is very "EU"-centric - a common currency model, but regions with differing economic pressures. The inflation/deflation issues in individual SR2010 regions are also generally "short term" effects, and in fact in the mid-term the World Commodity Market itself will provide a stabilizing factor - for example, if a single region has a super-hot economy and suffers a high inflation rate, after a year or two it will suddenly start to find that its cost to produce goods will make it less competitive and therefore export markets (and profits on exports) will deteriorate. As well, consumers determine their satisfaction with the price of goods (such as food) based on the World baseline prices; if a region's inflation causes it to start charging domestic consumers much more than the world standard, people will both reduce their consumption and start to become unhappy about it.
SR2010's engine isn't designed to run a 50-year cycle of economic activity, but for a 5 or 10 year span I think it makes a pretty good approximation of many of the factors that would effect regional issues (such as inflation, unemployment, etc).
-- George.
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dust off
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George Geczy
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Well, actually I would expand on this line to say something like "the SR2010 engine isn't designed to simulate long-term macro-economic cycles". As well as the fact that long-term cycles are nearly impossible to predict accurately (for every economist that raised a warning in the late 1920's there were more that thought the 30's would be a boom-time), there is also the fact that SR2010 is not intended to be played as a 100-year "peacetime" game. Long-term cycles are usually affected by non-economic world events (world wars, superpower policies, etc), and those events in SR2010 do already have economic effects.SR2010's engine isn't designed to run a 50-year cycle of economic activity
-- George.
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BigStone
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Here is a nice one..
http://www.bgforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=15364#15364
BTW Mighty Moose... hows your scenario going ... ?
Cheers
http://www.bgforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=15364#15364
BTW Mighty Moose... hows your scenario going ... ?
Cheers
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George Geczy
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Yes, I have started to look at Son of Moose's 90 year saved game - there are a few things that will need some work for the engine
There are few things in the engine that broke in this long-term game, causing there to be far too much money in the treasury. However, as far as trying this in the release version, there are a few issues:
1) With the low approval rating (caused in part by high taxes and low social spending), the leader would have either lost an election or else been deposed.
2) At an age of over 100 years, you'd be dead
-- George.
There are few things in the engine that broke in this long-term game, causing there to be far too much money in the treasury. However, as far as trying this in the release version, there are a few issues:
1) With the low approval rating (caused in part by high taxes and low social spending), the leader would have either lost an election or else been deposed.
2) At an age of over 100 years, you'd be dead
-- George.
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BigStone
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Son of Moose
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Bigstone:
George:
Now that I have downgraded my graphics settings (without much of a loss of quality), I am now able to conduct MEGA WARFARE. Montana (which was previously mine in the save game in George's possession), Idaho, Utah and Wyoming are now part of greater Washington.
My worst moment was the battle for Salt Lake City (note to Chris: check the spelling as it seems to be spelt Sault Lake City) where I sustained fairly heavy losses. (Those mormons can most certainly fight
).
Current KILL figures: c1100 units versus c300 units (c340 000 personnel) losses.
[I am now "taking on" Colorado's 3.26 Million army and 21 Build capacity .... I have tried a new strategy of Artillery bombardment which has caused their military losses to approach the MILLION mark with circa 3 to 5 MILLION civilian casualties a DAY. However, the c2000 military casualties on a good day seemed to equal the build capacity .... hence their military remained at 2.36 Million. :( Last night, I launched a fairly big attack along the East flank (where I correctly suspected that the defences were comparatively weak) and finally managed to capture Denver and its plethora of military bases without too many losses. (Mercifully there was no repeat of the Salt Lake City debacle ). Colorado now has a military of 2.31 million but with a build capacity of only 5. Maybe time to hurl more ordinance at them!!!!! 
].
I will return to Colorado soon and (out of spite and for some "light" relaxation), I think that I will blitzkrieg Nevada .... they have a fairly small military of c170 000 while I have a huge force assembled on their border (right next to their capital city
). Their conquest is a strategic necessity as they share a fairly large border with OREGON which currently possesses an army in excess of 12 MILLION. Now this will be an EXTREMELY INTERESTING campaign .... left as a Grand Finale after I have consolidated the Eastern part of the map. (Btw: one of the Dakota's has a military of 1.3 MILLION .... not quite Colorado but should still prove problematic).
BTW Mighty Moose... hows your scenario going ... ?
George:
Yes, I have started to look at Son of Moose's 90 year saved game - there are a few things that will need some work for the engine
Now that I have downgraded my graphics settings (without much of a loss of quality), I am now able to conduct MEGA WARFARE. Montana (which was previously mine in the save game in George's possession), Idaho, Utah and Wyoming are now part of greater Washington.
My worst moment was the battle for Salt Lake City (note to Chris: check the spelling as it seems to be spelt Sault Lake City) where I sustained fairly heavy losses. (Those mormons can most certainly fight
).Current KILL figures: c1100 units versus c300 units (c340 000 personnel) losses.
[I am now "taking on" Colorado's 3.26 Million army and 21 Build capacity .... I have tried a new strategy of Artillery bombardment which has caused their military losses to approach the MILLION mark with circa 3 to 5 MILLION civilian casualties a DAY. However, the c2000 military casualties on a good day seemed to equal the build capacity .... hence their military remained at 2.36 Million. :( Last night, I launched a fairly big attack along the East flank (where I correctly suspected that the defences were comparatively weak) and finally managed to capture Denver and its plethora of military bases without too many losses. (Mercifully there was no repeat of the Salt Lake City debacle
). Colorado now has a military of 2.31 million but with a build capacity of only 5. Maybe time to hurl more ordinance at them!!!!! ]. I will return to Colorado soon and (out of spite and for some "light" relaxation), I think that I will blitzkrieg Nevada .... they have a fairly small military of c170 000 while I have a huge force assembled on their border (right next to their capital city
). Their conquest is a strategic necessity as they share a fairly large border with OREGON which currently possesses an army in excess of 12 MILLION. Now this will be an EXTREMELY INTERESTING campaign .... left as a Grand Finale after I have consolidated the Eastern part of the map. (Btw: one of the Dakota's has a military of 1.3 MILLION .... not quite Colorado but should still prove problematic).