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PostPosted: Dec 22 2005 
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ion ?

In other words, has anyone ever tried to win by the NON-war method of
running competing regions out of people ?

Is it even possible ?

Can immigration /emmigration in the game result in a zero population for a region ?

If so, what happens ?

I decided to see, so i set up a game on my backup computer and have it running 24/7,with the region i am playing having a large Immigration +.

But its gonna be a long while to see it it can actually happen, and thats if nothing goes astray in the game bug wise cauisng an issue.
So while its running, i figured id ask and see if
:anyone had ever tried
:if it was even possible

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PostPosted: Dec 22 2005 
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I don't see how it can be done. I'm not even sure that immigration/emmigration is closed within the scenario, cities seem unable to drop below 499 people, and regions will always have deployed military personnel and bases which keep them in.


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PostPosted: Dec 22 2005 
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Were have you seen cities unable to drop below 499 ?

Yes, i myself am also curious about if populations totals are "closed" by regions in the scenario or if the world market also contributes population.

Someone else mentioned the ideal that immigration/ emmigration may include competition from the WM.

Its kinda what started me on this "project"

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PostPosted: Dec 22 2005 
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tkobo wrote:
Were have you seen cities unable to drop below 499 ?


Germany and Poland at war and trading one or two hexes around Dresden for years resulted in massive civilian casualties which eventually bottomed-out at 499.


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PostPosted: Dec 22 2005 
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Did the city get destroyed at 499 ? or did it just stop losing people ?

I am kinda hoping that the cities get destroyed by population loss due to emmigration.

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PostPosted: Dec 22 2005 
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The migration system is not closed and ppl only migrate to and from city hexes so it is impossible to get below certain numbers. City hexes can only go as low as the minimum population for the terrain tile type used for the hex. This is a limitation of the system that we have on our wishlist to address but I would suspect we'll need a whole new engine before that is possible.

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PostPosted: Dec 22 2005 
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Bummer.

It would have been an interesting way to win the game.

Nice to hear youve thought about for the future though.

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 Post subject: No way to win
PostPosted: Jan 18 2006 
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tkobo wrote:
Bummer.

It would have been an interesting way to win the game.

Nice to hear youve thought about for the future though.


tkobo,
Just how would immigration/emigration win a game for you? While you can stop emigration through controls you can't entice people to immigrate into your region. You can only charge people to immigrate, you can't pay them with a "negative" immigration fee. The controls only keep emigrants in or immigrants out.

What would be an interesting new twist would be to allow for a "negative" immigration fee which would mean your region is paying people to immigrate. Only then could you entice people to move in in droves. You'd have to be able to target your negative immigration fee to a particular region in order to deplete it's population. Otherwise you'll get all the riff-raff hopping aboard and then the question becomes how does your economy fare when overpopulated? A sure way to sink your GDP/c.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen


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PostPosted: Jan 18 2006 
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Sure you can. You can greatly increase your immigration by increasing gdp/c,social services,etc..

AND

By reducing the other regions abilities to keep their population happy.

Ive got a game playing now where my net anual migration is over 1 million a year.
Ive seen games where it was a net migration of over 4 million a year.

Sadly though, as BG explained that 1 million doesnt necessarily come from the other regions populations as the system is not closed.
IF it did, and the hexs could depopulate (which again sadly BG said they cant) i could run the other regions out of population.

It would very much like an economic way to win.

By the ways, your idea about adding in paying people to move to your region is a very good idea i think.

Ireland does it now in real life. It would make an interesting addition to the game i think.

Id throw it up in the wish list, but its your idea,so ill wait and see if you do first.

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 Post subject: The Apocalypse is Near
PostPosted: Jan 19 2006 
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tkobo wrote:
Sure you can. You can greatly increase your immigration by increasing gdp/c,social services,etc..

AND

By reducing the other regions abilities to keep their population happy.

Ive got a game playing now where my net anual migration is over 1 million a year.
Ive seen games where it was a net migration of over 4 million a year.

By the ways, your idea about adding in paying people to move to your region is a very good idea i think.

Ireland does it now in real life. It would make an interesting addition to the game i think.

Id throw it up in the wish list, but its your idea,so ill wait and see if you do first.


tkobo,
The apocalypse is near if we agree on something. :D

While some of your population increases through migration are impressive it still would take quite a bit of time to empty your enemy's population, probably longer than a scenario lasts. Still it is an interesting ploy to weaken countries with a larger population. You'd really have to have a hot economy to absorb a huge host and maintain your GDP/c. Or you're imminently going to war and need cannon fodder.

I'll go ahead and post a wishlist item for bribing people to immigrate into your region via negative immigration fees. That would make an interesting choice for players regarding immigration. If BG can make negative immigration fees then maybe they could also do emigration fees both positive and negative so players could even pay their citizens to leave for other regions to reduce populations in order to improve GDP/c or to pay them to stay if some other region is enticing immigrants.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan 19 2006 
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Yup, it would definately go well beyond the reccomended scenario time.

But thats okay with me , because almost all my games do that anyway.

I play more to play than to crush.

My current game in is cicra 2060.Im thinking if nothing goes wrong, it should go a good 100 years (circa 2115).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan 20 2006 
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Joined: May 28 2005
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tkobo wrote:
Yup, it would definately go well beyond the reccomended scenario time.

But thats okay with me , because almost all my games do that anyway.

I play more to play than to crush.

My current game in is cicra 2060.Im thinking if nothing goes wrong, it should go a good 100 years (circa 2115).


Tkobo, may I ask how your economy is doing in 2060?

Have u managed to increase it? :D

U've had 50 years time to boom that baby, what are your results, I've only tried economic scenario's up to 10 years 8O I am just wondering what u have done with your eco so far ???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan 20 2006 
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Its a campaign game.So im not sure how exactly to measure the growth as its grown the entire campaign ,as has the region of course.

Maybe some pics to show where its at ?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan 20 2006 
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sure that would be great :-)

I'm mostly interested in

- GDP/C
- inflation
- unemployment
- production capacity
- efficiency investment
- Account balance (ur budget)

I only care about your current situation. Because facilities and real economic growth isn't taken further in campaigns, although alot of that data I request is taken with u into the next scenario, you don't actually have the production base to support it initially (considering that you're economy had more capital goods in the previous scenario)

Thanks :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan 20 2006 
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Image

Image

Image

Also ive given over 10 trillion dollars (probably more like 16) to other regions as economic aid (free of charge) in cash alone AND over 20 trillion oil + alot of Comsumer goods, industrial goods,military goods,etc...
(equal to probably about 1/2 of my current stock in each).

Image

As this pick shows, ive kept every region of the world economically afloat thru the above gifts.

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