Turkey's Oil Deposits

In this thread you can discuss any thoughts you have about balance within the game. Does a particular unit need a specification changed? Is a stealth plane not stealthy enough? Do "Belli Bar" levels need to be changed? Let us know and discuss it all here.

Moderators: Legend, Balthagor, Moderators

Post Reply
Message
Author
margab
Captain
Posts: 110
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO (nationality--Turkey)

Turkey's Oil Deposits

#1 Post by margab » Apr 01 2006

I was just looking at Turkey again in the Mid-east scenario and I came to realize that Turkey's oil deposits are unbalanced. In real life even if Turkey did use all their potential, there is no way that it can bring production to the incredible amounts in SR2010. I don't know the exact potential of Turkey, but in a game I extracted 7.5M barrels/day (and there was a lot more potential than that so I would say close to 12-13M)which seems just too much. Even Saudi Arabia today (one of the biggest crude oil producers in the world) produces 8.8M barrels/day (taken from opec.org), so Turkey's oil reserves should be scaled down. Because as Turkey in the scenario, your goal should be to enter northern Iraq and capture valuable oil reserves. BUT as Turkey, I don't feel a need to do this because I can easily satisfy my own demand and even export! Why should I invade oil rich Iraq then???

I know that this game doesn't take into fact that oil is depletable so maybe the developers only looked at the proven oil reserves and that's why there is so much potential but I'm still not sure.

This goes for other regions too (although I know less about other regions and would like to hear other people's opinions). In my opinion oil should be scaled back in the world in general, it should be a less accessible resource.
"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?"-Juvenal

BigStone
General
Posts: 1390
Joined: Dec 22 2004
Location: Holland

#2 Post by BigStone » Apr 01 2006

I don't give a damm about natural oil .... i go almost imediatley for
synthetic.... :wink:
NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 19928
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#3 Post by Balthagor » Apr 01 2006

We've noticed that North America is another case of this, that IRL they could not generate the petroleum they can in game. But it is difficulty to balance in game. There is no report of what "potential" you're giving when you creating the scenario.

And when setting the actual, if you check the notes on creating a scenario, you'll find that the actual values are affected by demand. Trying to get precise country production values for all product types would IMHO be an impossible task without spending years on it. I usually found that I would give a certain amount of C. Goods/I. Goods/M. Goods to a region. This creates demand for electricity. Having found that they have a surplus and a certain percentage produced by petroleum (both values easily found) I would set that accordingly. When it came to setting output of petroleum, some countries that are exporters would have a demand double what they produce IRL. Trying to rebalance all of these scenarios simply became an impossible task.

We are looking at ways of making this simpler to create for future versions, but that goes beyond the scope or resources allocated to SR2010.

FYI: if you try changing a scenario you'll see how much things cascade. Try and remove petroleum terrain and you impact population affecting demand. Decrease Industrial goods production and suddenly you have a surplus of petroleum and electricity where the design was for a shortage. It's wonderfully complex and at the same time frustratingly complex.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

The_Blind_One
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: May 28 2005

#4 Post by The_Blind_One » Jun 29 2006

Just because I know this game on the back of my hand and have lots of experience with the editor myself...
Try and remove petroleum terrain and you impact population affecting demand.
How would changing unexploited tiles impact population demand when the population demand is fixed in the scenario files. Using the ''ceterus paribus principle'' it won't change, ur only taking away ''potential'' oil production. So unless u mess with the facilities or make the tiles have production on their own. It's not gonne happen.
It's wonderfully complex and at the same time frustratingly complex.
Now that's one thing I do agree with :P it's a real bitch to balance, changing the production has effects on all demand because the gdp/c shifts with the changing production.

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 19928
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#5 Post by Balthagor » Jun 29 2006

The_Blind_One wrote:How would changing unexploited tiles impact population demand when the population demand is fixed in the scenario files.
Because changing the type of terrain usually changes the total population in the hex. Each terrain tile has a "base popuplation" value that is assigned. It's not the demand per person that is changes, it's the number of ppl.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

The_Blind_One
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: May 28 2005

#6 Post by The_Blind_One » Jun 29 2006

well tiles only have a base number of people (why did u guys even include this? it seems to serve no purpose?) and the base is usually around 200 or so, and if tiles count 20.000 inhabitants nobody is gonne be bothered nor is it gonne make a big impact hit on the economy. Most regions with oil are sparsely populated to begin with :D

Back a couple a months ago I changed the US southwest from being a major oil exporter to barely self-sufficient in it. It didn't change alot except a couple thousand inhabitants less. (Katrina came back for another round in 2008 :lol:)

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 19928
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#7 Post by Balthagor » Jun 29 2006

actually that base is multiplied according to the km/hex of the map so some tiles have 4000-8000 ppl. George mentioned to me a while back that there was a memory saving for using a base # (a savings which is lost for a specific hex if a specific number of ppl is set for that hex).

Change 10 hexes and you start to get into larger numbers. I'm not saying don't change it, I'm just saying beware if you change it and that we're not currenlt devoting the time to that area of development (ie updating scenarios)
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

The Khan
General
Posts: 1839
Joined: Nov 06 2007

#8 Post by The Khan » Nov 17 2007

a small footnote, I remember Turkey having Uranium and Thorium deposits as well, also you could make some railway between Istanbul and Ankara.

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 19928
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#9 Post by Balthagor » Nov 17 2007

I'll check for these.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 19928
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#10 Post by Balthagor » Nov 19 2007

I've got no uranium or thorium in Turkey;

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/ ... ca.html#tu

And we've got lots more rails in the game this time, but none directly between Ankara and Istanbul, but there is a road. If a road and a rail pass along the same path we omit the rail because it adds nothing (roads carry supply further than rails).
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
Feltan
General
Posts: 1151
Joined: Aug 20 2006
Location: MIDWEST USA

#11 Post by Feltan » Nov 19 2007

Hmmmm... I guess that statment rules out the oft requested "rail movement" or strategic redeployment option. :-(

Regards,
Feltan
ETA Five Minutes ......

The Khan
General
Posts: 1839
Joined: Nov 06 2007

#12 Post by The Khan » Nov 19 2007

Wtf, no thorium? Hmm... What about these links?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium

Wiki says:

Country RAR Th (tonnes) EAR Th (tonnes)
Brazil 606,000 700,000
Turkey 380,000 500,000
India 319,000 -
United States 137,000 295,000
Norway 132,000 132,000
Greenland 54,000 32,000
Canada 45,000 128,000
Australia 19,000 -
South Africa 18,000 -
Egypt 15,000 309,000
Other Countries 505,000 -
World Total 2,230,000 2,130,000

The two sources vary wildly for countries such as Brazil, Turkey, and Australia.

http://www.iaea.org/inis/aws/fnss/abstr ... 19_29.html



As for Uranium, I am yet to find anything, I found a few sentences from Google, but when I click them something completely different pops up.

Post Reply

Return to “Balance”