Engineers
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Sure, but only if they have the time to build anti-tank obstacles and mine fields....
Just ask yourself what unit has a bigger change to stop a tank ?
Infantry(equipped with M2 Bradleys, TOW, Javelin. etc) or engineers (equpped with bulldozers, mines warfare equipment and demolition charges).
Just look at their mission as define by US Army doctrine! The closest thing that it says about combat is "to perform REAR AREA security operations WHEN required"... And if you have enemy tanks in your rear area and engineers is all you have, well... Good luck
Sure, engineers go to basic tranning, and therefore they could fight as infantry if require, but other than small arms, they do not have much else weapons-wise, just specialized construction and mine warfare equipment.
At the most, I would gave them light infantry soft and hard attack values in the game.
Just ask yourself what unit has a bigger change to stop a tank ?
Infantry(equipped with M2 Bradleys, TOW, Javelin. etc) or engineers (equpped with bulldozers, mines warfare equipment and demolition charges).
Just look at their mission as define by US Army doctrine! The closest thing that it says about combat is "to perform REAR AREA security operations WHEN required"... And if you have enemy tanks in your rear area and engineers is all you have, well... Good luck
Sure, engineers go to basic tranning, and therefore they could fight as infantry if require, but other than small arms, they do not have much else weapons-wise, just specialized construction and mine warfare equipment.
At the most, I would gave them light infantry soft and hard attack values in the game.
- bergsjaeger
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Sorry, but what makes engineers special is not the combat ability but their construction, demoliton, bridging and amphibious abilities... I do not think they should be better that light infantry... They already are in a way.
Remember, what I would like to see is the AI using more variaty of units and less engineers in a combat role.
Remember, what I would like to see is the AI using more variaty of units and less engineers in a combat role.
- bergsjaeger
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- bergsjaeger
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- Balthagor
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On our side we don't have much comment yet, I just finished a bunch of equipment file work so it will be a while before any changes are made no matter what is decided for this topic. I've let the conversation continue because then I know where to come back and read when I do get back to it.
I'm still curious if anyone knows why engineers were so strong in People's General of if there are any other games that made have engineering type units and how they are balanced there.
I'm still curious if anyone knows why engineers were so strong in People's General of if there are any other games that made have engineering type units and how they are balanced there.
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Never played it, but I think it because of the "common sense", you know, engineers carry a lot of powerful explosives so, they must be lethal! Nevermind if they have to run to attach the explosives to tanks or apc going at 30mph...Balthagor wrote:I'm still curious if anyone knows why engineers were so strong in People's General of if there are any other games that made have engineering type units and how they are balanced there.
Sarcasm aside, that might be the case on WW II , so perhaps, there the myth was born...
- bergsjaeger
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I was just looking at the unit table for the PG and yes it's interesting to see that engineers were so strong in that game too (hard attack value of 18, better than all other inf.). But I don't know why they did that, but I imo they should be support units only (may be even carrying supplies) instead of having high attack values. When it comes to their defences, i understand that they can have a significant close defence (they can set those up better than other inf units). So my main concern is the scaling back of the hard attack value and make the AI reduce building them (as others have mentioned, the AI builds too many engineers and uses them for fighting purposes).Balthagor wrote:On our side we don't have much comment yet, I just finished a bunch of equipment file work so it will be a while before any changes are made no matter what is decided for this topic. I've let the conversation continue because then I know where to come back and read when I do get back to it.
I'm still curious if anyone knows why engineers were so strong in People's General of if there are any other games that made have engineering type units and how they are balanced there.
Note: For people interested in People's General Unit table, below is a link (go to the bottom of the page).
http://www.wargamer.com/articles/peg_st ... _page2.asp
"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?"-Juvenal
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I wouldn't assume People's General was so thoroughly researched. I'm aware of several actions where engineers performed well during WWII, but they should be put in the context of the huge amount of other skirmishes and battles where their role was either insignificant, or support in clearing obstacles. I know the US engineer squads and platoons had less men per squad and less support weapons than infantry squads.I'm still curious if anyone knows why engineers were so strong in People's General of if there are any other games that made have engineering type units and how they are balanced there.
The so called common sense view is often completely opposite to the truth of things.
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Just in case, I was being sarcastic ... Or... Perhaps you are supporting my comment ... Geez!!! Don't you love internet!The so called common sense view is often completely opposite to the truth of things.
Also, I couldn't find any specific AT weapon in their TO&EI know the US engineer squads and platoons had less men per squad and less support weapons than infantry squads.
- Balthagor
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Most of the equipment files you find for the game these days have been heavily modified by their community so I would expect they are at least as well researched as our list is. But you are correct, they could be wrong on the engineer strength as well.dust off wrote:I wouldn't assume People's General was so thoroughly researched.
If we did reduce thier values, their cost/build time would need to be reviewed. It was set according to their current combat values...