Help Huey become a better Transport Helicopter

In this thread you can discuss any thoughts you have about balance within the game. Does a particular unit need a specification changed? Is a stealth plane not stealthy enough? Do "Belli Bar" levels need to be changed? Let us know and discuss it all here.

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
Sebastiaan
Colonel
Posts: 376
Joined: Aug 29 2005
Location: the Netherlands

Help Huey become a better Transport Helicopter

#1 Post by Sebastiaan » Oct 18 2005

Alright, this is a nise little story a made up, but it contains a real message :wink: .

One uponna time, there was a very cute transporte helicopter Unit called Huey. Although he is only half the size of it larger brothers , he tried to make up for it with beeing nice to the soldiers. THe Soldiers liked him because Huey was brave enough to transport dying soldiers from the frontline while under fire. Although Huey was popular amound the soldiers, his brothers consider him something of a misfit. THat's because Huey can only transport wounded or spited infantry units. His stronger brother, on the other hand are able to transport one or more complete units without any clumsy stitting. His brother often teased him beeing so clumsy. One night, after he wept himself to sleep, Huey had a beautiful dream. In his dream a nice developer appeared and asked him. "What he would like to be?". For Huey, this was not a very hard question. All his like he had wanted to be one thing, which is "beeing able to transport a single normaly sized infantry unit a few kilometers with splitting them".

The nice developer closed his eyed and tried to think of a solution. THen suddenly he got it. He gave Huey 50% more strenght and pushed his Cargo capacity up by 6%. Because Huey was a very small helicpter, the developer saw no problem increasing his strength since Heuy only required half the size of his larger brothers. Finaly Huey was able to pick up small infantry units and fly them arround without any splitting them up. THen suddenly Huey was brutely awaken by the sound of gunfire. The airfield was under a suprize attack by enemy forces. THe general ordered all forces to evacuate. HIs brothers had already left the airfield and only one Special forces, which whas defending the airfield was left. Huey yelled to the Commander of the special forces unit to get into the Helicopter A.S.A.P. Howver, the commander refuces and told Huey "we either leave as a team, or not at all!". "Very well" Huey responded, "have it you way, I got my orders, I can't force you to split up, unfortunatly". Huey increased his engine speed a flew away toward to nearest safe airport. As he flew almost out of visual range, he looked back and saw how the Brave but foolish special forces unit, was slaughtered by everwhelming enemy forces. While we bas looking at the carnage, he thought, "If only the nice developer had granted my wish for real, this bloodshed wouldn't have happened....

The_Blind_One
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: May 28 2005

Re: Help Huey become a better Transport Helicopter

#2 Post by The_Blind_One » Oct 19 2005

Sebastiaan wrote:Alright, this is a nise little story a made up, but it contains a real message :wink: .

One uponna time, there was a very cute transporte helicopter Unit called Huey. Although he is only half the size of it larger brothers , he tried to make up for it with beeing nice to the soldiers. THe Soldiers liked him because Huey was brave enough to transport dying soldiers from the frontline while under fire. Although Huey was popular amound the soldiers, his brothers consider him something of a misfit. THat's because Huey can only transport wounded or spited infantry units. His stronger brother, on the other hand are able to transport one or more complete units without any clumsy stitting. His brother often teased him beeing so clumsy. One night, after he wept himself to sleep, Huey had a beautiful dream. In his dream a nice developer appeared and asked him. "What he would like to be?". For Huey, this was not a very hard question. All his like he had wanted to be one thing, which is "beeing able to transport a single normaly sized infantry unit a few kilometers with splitting them".

The nice developer closed his eyed and tried to think of a solution. THen suddenly he got it. He gave Huey 50% more strenght and pushed his Cargo capacity up by 6%. Because Huey was a very small helicpter, the developer saw no problem increasing his strength since Heuy only required half the size of his larger brothers. Finaly Huey was able to pick up small infantry units and fly them arround without any splitting them up. THen suddenly Huey was brutely awaken by the sound of gunfire. The airfield was under a suprize attack by enemy forces. THe general ordered all forces to evacuate. HIs brothers had already left the airfield and only one Special forces, which whas defending the airfield was left. Huey yelled to the Commander of the special forces unit to get into the Helicopter A.S.A.P. Howver, the commander refuces and told Huey "we either leave as a team, or not at all!". "Very well" Huey responded, "have it you way, I got my orders, I can't force you to split up, unfortunatly". Huey increased his engine speed a flew away toward to nearest safe airport. As he flew almost out of visual range, he looked back and saw how the Brave but foolish special forces unit, was slaughtered by everwhelming enemy forces. While we bas looking at the carnage, he thought, "If only the nice developer had granted my wish for real, this bloodshed wouldn't have happened....
lmao,

Amen :) :D

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20802
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#3 Post by Balthagor » Oct 19 2005

cute, real cute :P

Anyway, you got one of them. I increased the cargo capacity of the UH-1N from 3 to 3.2 tons. I had rounded it off, should really be 3.15, so I guess we're letting a few of the soldiers ride outside on the landing supports, but I can live with that. ;)

As for increasing the strength, I don't want to do that. You can already build overstrength, why should we change that? If you're wanting the units in the scenarios to have more helicopters per battalion, you'll need to build more. We gave the regions the number of hueys they use. Even if I changed it in the equipment file, IIRC that would not update the units in existing scenarios, it would just make them "understrength".

What you really want, is UH-1Y at tech 101. I has a carry capacity of 5.1 tons.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
Sebastiaan
Colonel
Posts: 376
Joined: Aug 29 2005
Location: the Netherlands

#4 Post by Sebastiaan » Oct 20 2005

Balthagor wrote:cute, real cute :P

Anyway, you got one of them. I increased the cargo capacity of the UH-1N from 3 to 3.2 tons. I had rounded it off, should really be 3.15, so I guess we're letting a few of the soldiers ride outside on the landing supports, but I can live with that. ;)

As for increasing the strength, I don't want to do that. You can already build overstrength, why should we change that? If you're wanting the units in the scenarios to have more helicopters per battalion, you'll need to build more. We gave the regions the number of hueys they use. Even if I changed it in the equipment file, IIRC that would not update the units in existing scenarios, it would just make them "understrength".

What you really want, is UH-1Y at tech 101. I has a carry capacity of 5.1 tons.
Yes I know you can accomplish the same by overstrengthing them but this is oven not a viable option in missions and the AI also doesn't know how to use overstrengthening.

I simply want that a standard sized Huey unit can transport a standard sized Green berret/Special forces unit without any hassel. That way the become an effective means to transport small ed infantry units for short range incursions. The main justifucation that increasing streght is realistic is that hueys are much smaller in size than other transport helicopters, and therefore also require less parking space (on a carrier).

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20802
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#5 Post by Balthagor » Oct 20 2005

Sebastiaan wrote:Yes I know you can accomplish the same by overstrengthing them but this is oven not a viable option in missions...
Why not?
Sebastiaan wrote:...and the AI also doesn't know how to use overstrengthening.
AI doesn't currenlty air transport...
Sebastiaan wrote:...I simply want that a standard sized Huey unit can transport a standard sized Green berret/Special forces...
But it can't and I don't see why it should. Huey's are old, that is why the US is looking at the UN-1Y and has introduced the Blackhawk.
Sebastiaan wrote:...increasing streght is realistic is that hueys are much smaller in size than other transport helicopters...
I don't see why that would change the size of battalion they would normaly work in. Many countries don't even run these as battalions, but as squads in various small duties. This helicopters did prove to be excellent vehicles during vietnam, but how many have seen action in Iraq/Afghanistan? They are just too old.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
Sebastiaan
Colonel
Posts: 376
Joined: Aug 29 2005
Location: the Netherlands

#6 Post by Sebastiaan » Oct 20 2005

The Heuy might be absolete by today standard but for Third world countries , it could be valued it weight in gold. Just because the American Army doesn't use them in Battalions anymore, doesn't mean they couldn't. Compared to it "advanced" cousins, a Huey is much easier to maintain, repair and store. Also note that due to its lower weight class, the helicopter is much more manouverable, allowing it to fly much closer to the ground safely, effectivly avoiding detection. Increasing the Huey seize to 36 will not suddenly make the other helicopter look like idiots, because the Huey has only limited range and defensive capacity. It will however, give players a relistic option to transport a full batalion of green berrets in one ferry. Is that so unreasonable from a game blalance point of view?

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20802
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#7 Post by Balthagor » Oct 20 2005

But third world regions can't build it. Only US regions can and they don't need it.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

Draken
General
Posts: 1208
Joined: Jul 14 2004
Human: Yes
Location: Space Coast, FL

#8 Post by Draken » Oct 20 2005

But third world regions can't build it. Only US regions can and they don't need it.
Do you mean Green Berets?

Anyways, I don't see anything wrong with leaving the default strenght at 24 huey/btn.

Actually I using Venezuela's Huey btn (don't remember its strenght now) against Brazil at the Amazon to insert Elite forces btns (at 50% strengh) to blow up bridges and do some recon behind brazilian lines... For aircav I'm using the Bo160 .

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20802
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#9 Post by Balthagor » Oct 20 2005

no, I meant the Huey. Isn't it only US regions that can research it?
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

Draken
General
Posts: 1208
Joined: Jul 14 2004
Human: Yes
Location: Space Coast, FL

#10 Post by Draken » Oct 20 2005

I can research the UH-1N playing as Venezuela and the Y version playing as Taiwan... For sure!

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20802
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#11 Post by Balthagor » Oct 21 2005

Oh, I had forgotten we'd made it accessible to so many regions. Nonetheless, nothing stops players in those regions from building them overstrength.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
Sebastiaan
Colonel
Posts: 376
Joined: Aug 29 2005
Location: the Netherlands

#12 Post by Sebastiaan » Oct 21 2005

Balthagor wrote:cute, real cute :P

Anyway, you got one of them. I increased the cargo capacity of the UH-1N from 3 to 3.2 tons. I had rounded it off, should really be 3.15, so I guess we're letting a few of the soldiers ride outside on the landing supports, but I can live with that. ;)
I might be mistaken but according to my equipment file, the UH-1N got a transport capacity of 2.3 ton. Multiply that by 24 and you get a maximum transport capacity of 55.2 ton. Note that the lightest infantry unit in the game (ranger) is 56 ton. We therefore come only 0.8 ton short which is 33 kg short each helicopter :o . In other words if the pilot would go on a Dieat, he would be able to transport at least one ranger unit :P

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20802
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#13 Post by Balthagor » Oct 21 2005

Your comment made me go back and look at the spreadsheet. It would seem I was mistaken when I went to check the cargo capacity of the huey. I accidently looked at the unit weight which is why I saw 3.0 and 5.1 for the 1N/1Y. The actual values for cargo are as you mentioned, 2.3 for the UH-1N

Empty operating 4,667 lb (2,116 kg)
Max useful load 3,880 lb (1,760 kg)
Max sling load 5,000 lb (2,270 kg)
Max gross 9,500 lb (4,309 kg)

Now that I'm looking up the correct data, it would seem that I am changing my mind. I stand by our original cargo capacity for the UH-1N at 2.3 tons. As it is, this basically means you have 20 guys flying in the sling load! the TRUE capacity inside the Huey is 1.7 tons as shown above. Each huey carries 10 troops. With a battalion of 24 you get 240 men. The Ranger battalion is only 175 men but Rangers are the special forces unit balanced for demolition (shock troops essentially) so they have too much gear to fit. If you're trying to look at the Huey's service in Vietnam it is more realistic to look at transporting around Marines. A full battalion of marines is 468 men and 90 tons. A half size battlion of marines is 234 men and 45 tons. Fits in the 1N. A battalion of Rangers is 73 tons and fits in the 1Y since it has a cargo capacity of 76 tons. Giving the 1N any more than 2.3 tons is completly unrealistic, we're already pushing the limit.

Let's face it, the Huey is just not a very useful unit in game.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
Sebastiaan
Colonel
Posts: 376
Joined: Aug 29 2005
Location: the Netherlands

#14 Post by Sebastiaan » Nov 11 2005

a few days ago a saw a top ten of greatest helicopters ever. Guess who came out number one? That's right it was Huey!! :lol: . Reason, it was very versitile helicopter and could take a beating. What do you mean by "Not very usefull helicopter"? the experts at discovery appear to tink otherwise. Meabee its an idea to slightly increase their defence value to emphasise their ability to survive multiple shots through the fuselage
not going forward eqeals to going backward

Draken
General
Posts: 1208
Joined: Jul 14 2004
Human: Yes
Location: Space Coast, FL

#15 Post by Draken » Nov 11 2005

He said "IN GAME" :wink:

Post Reply

Return to “Balance”