Anti Air infantry initiative is too high

[Balthagor]

...lowering AA capability of infantry by 20%...

This would make them 20% less effective against helicopter and airplane attacks, something that has not been proven as unbalanced.

...and increasing ground defence of cruise missiles depending on their maximum speed...

This would make the cruise missiles harder to shoot down for AA units as well, something that has also not been shown as unbalanced.

I am in favour of further investigating the defense values for the cruise missiles, IIRC we have made them all the same ATM and using speed as one of the factors makes a lot of sense. If you have a specific missile in mind, make your case, but you know I'll just ask for a controlled test of it...

[Draken]

Chris,
Did you get my savegame?

[Balthagor]

ya, thanks. I'll use it for further testing.

[Sebastiaan]

I am in favour of further investigating the defense values for the cruise missiles, IIRC we have made them all the same ATM and using speed as one of the factors makes a lot of sense. If you have a specific missile in mind, make your case, but you know I'll just ask for a controlled test of it...

Well, this is mainly to compensate for the scaled movement speed of missiles compared to their real speed. From what I have observed, missiles apprear to fly at the speed equal to the square root of it speed multiplied by a fixed constant. As a result a missile with a maximum speed of 4000 km/y only travels twise (and not four times) as fast as a missile with a maximum speed of 1000 km/u. I understand why the developers choose this technique fortheir game. however, they did not compensate the missiles for the lowered represented game flying speed. Therefore to compensate for this lack of speed I, modifed their defence by taking the square root of their real speed multiplied by a constant depending on target type (land, sea or nuclear). The resulting defence is much more fairing, making slow cruise missiles easier to destroy and fast cruise missiles much harder to shoot down

[Balthagor]

so do you have the new defense values for some of the missiles? Which ones? And have you tried it in game to see the effect?

[The_Blind_One]

I am in favour of further investigating the defense values for the cruise missiles, IIRC we have made them all the same ATM and using speed as one of the factors makes a lot of sense. If you have a specific missile in mind, make your case, but you know I'll just ask for a controlled test of it...

Well, this is mainly to compensate for the scaled movement speed of missiles compared to their real speed. From what I have observed, missiles apprear to fly at the speed equal to the square root of it speed multiplied by a fixed constant. As a result a missile with a maximum speed of 4000 km/y only travels twise (and not four times) as fast as a missile with a maximum speed of 1000 km/u. I understand why the developers choose this technique fortheir game. however, they did not compensate the missiles for the lowered represented game flying speed. Therefore to compensate for this lack of speed I, modifed their defence by taking the square root of their real speed multiplied by a constant depending on target type (land, sea or nuclear). The resulting defence is much more fairing, making slow cruise missiles easier to destroy and fast cruise missiles much harder to shoot down

Could u please work this out further. I'd like to use this for my 31 player worldmap mod wich I think I'll release sometime during this week for testers to try and in 2 weeks to 1 month I hope to have a map full with units

[Sebastiaan]

I already got a alpha version ready, If you or anyone else is intrested, just send me a private message.

[Balthagor]

AGM-12D Bulpup B and AGM-154APW JSOW are getting shot down by a M113A1 infantry btn, nothing else is in range. Only a very few missiles go thru ... It's anoying!

We've begun some work on this and have found there is a bug here. There is a possibility of missiles running out of fuel in their last hex of travel. Because the Bulpup is such short range, they never reach the target. The M113 is not actaully shooting them down. Also, using the controlled test you sent (thans again btw!) we found that one shot of AGM-154s would kill 2 squads in the M113s when the infantry fired back. By turning their air role off and repeating the test, 3 squads are killed. So it looks like 5 missiles are fired, 2 hit, 2 miss (or inflict less than "kill" damage), 1 gets shot down... when they don't run out of fuel

So far this sounds reasonable to me. We'll have the bug fixed for the next update but for now bulpups are likely useless unless the hex is < 16km.

[Draken]

Good to know, but the M113 shoots at them or not? I ask because I see the "unit firing" circle around it .

So, the bug is that the plane is firing the missiles out of range? What? You fixed the Helicopters problem by putting their pilots in airplanes and move the jet pilots to helicopters???? (j/k of course)

Also, using the controlled test you sent (thans again btw!)

No problem! Glad to help!

[Balthagor]

it is possible that the infantry where shooting as they can fire into the next hex, but we used the debugger and confirmed that the missiles where not impacting at all.

... maybe we're using the helo pilots for ordinance management?

[Sebastiaan]

exactly why does the missile run out of fuel?

When I calculate the required fuel required for a mission to reach its maximum range, I get

(16 / 2205) * 137.81 = 0.999981859 < 1

which as you can see is lower than the total fuel capacity. Am I missing something?

[Balthagor]

I have no idea, I don't look at the code. Either way, it's fixed. It will be part of update 4.