air power...err...power

[hithere]

Does anyone think that aircraft, esp bomber aircraft, are alittle underpowered? a case in point,

i was trying to do a air attact on St. Louis, it had 1 MIM-14 protecting it. i had 3 sq of B-2 and 3 sq of B-52, several F-111, and A-10s.
i wanted to take out the AA first so my A-10's and F-15 could do their job. i used all 3 sq of B-2 (with raptor bombs) and chose to bomb the MIM-14 (there was some infantry and arty there). After several sorties, the MIM-14 as barely scrached. I believe that with that amount of airpower, i should have been able to destroy the AA. i realize that it represents a battalion of AA, but i also had well over 30 B-2's.

also, since the update, i have noticed that aircraft do not seem to use thier bomb/missles as much. was this toned down in the update.

if this was done to balance play, i have no problem with that. If people think i am wrong, i have no problem with that either. I do think this is a very good game. I have not acually had FUN with a game for alot of years.

ps. notice i acually posted in the right forum this time!!

[Xetal]

Was there anything else on the hex with the AA unit?

I know that AA units and Artillary units cannot be directly attacked if there are other land units on the tile with them... so if there are 6 infantry and 1 AA unit on a tile, you can't beat on the AA unit until the infantry is gone.

If you're using raptors, I -believe- those are direct attack bombs and fall under these rules...

In the situation you described there was some infantry on the hex with the AA, so this raises three questions:

1.) Did the bombs target out things on that hex or were you unwittingly destroying other stuff with those?

2.) Did you use a bomber with strong normal air attack, and was it normal attack or area attack?

and

3.) Did you notice how badly you hurt the infantry that was sharing the hex?

[Decimatus]

I think the way modern airpower works, we should be able to pick out the AA units no matter how many other units are in the way.

[tboy21]

I think that you should have right-click the unit, choosing the AA and then attack

[Xetal]

Deci:

I'm not going to voice my opinion on that, but I remember hearing that you can't directly attack AA or Artillary units when there is an infantry/tank/anti-tank on the hex. (EDIT: In game of course)

[hithere]

Deci:

I'm not going to voice my opinion on that, but I remember hearing that you can't directly attack AA or Artillary units when there is an infantry/tank/anti-tank on the hex. (EDIT: In game of course)

i was under the impression that only applied to land units. if it applys to airpower, then i will have my first real complaint of the game. it is easy to be a blocking force to protect ground units, you can not do that for aircraft.

destroying AA has been in major militarys doctrine for years. (wild weasle for starters)

what i did was right click on the stack and choose the MIM-14. i'm pretty sure that it was damaged, so that is why i think the direct attack rule does not apply to aircraft.

this really needs someone from BattleGoat to clarify.

[Balthagor]

i was under the impression that only applied to land units.

You are correct. Was there something else to clarify?

[Baloogan]

Battlegoat! You have 1/2 of your forums who think that air is too weak and 1/2 of the forums that think that air is too strong! What you must do it make a easily modified variable controling the streanghth of AA weapons.

[hithere]

Balthagor, i was refering to this post that appears to say that it also applies to air units.

Was there anything else on the hex with the AA unit?

I know that AA units and Artillary units cannot be directly attacked if there are other land units on the tile with them... so if there are 6 infantry and 1 AA unit on a tile, you can't beat on the AA unit until the infantry is gone.

If you're using raptors, I -believe- those are direct attack bombs and fall under these rules...
In the situation you described there was some infantry on the hex with the AA, so this raises three questions:

1.) Did the bombs target out things on that hex or were you unwittingly destroying other stuff with those?

2.) Did you use a bomber with strong normal air attack, and was it normal attack or area attack?

and

3.) Did you notice how badly you hurt the infantry that was sharing the hex?

[hithere]

Battlegoat! You have 1/2 of your forums who think that air is too weak and 1/2 of the forums that think that air is too strong! What you must do it make a easily modified variable controling the streanghth of AA weapons.

i am not saying all aircraft are too weak or too strong. SR2010 has such a wide varity of aircraft, some people may use some, more than others, and get a totally diff opinion. i know that the a-10 is very powerful and it does not even have bomb/missle units.

i am just pointing out that, in my experiance, trying to do some things accourding to military doctrine (air superiorority, suppression and destruction of AA, destroying hard targets from the air, close and destroy soft targets with ground forces) is next to impossible. i have yet to destroy a AA unit with extraordinary and un realistic amounts of airpower.

i just don't think it should be that hard. with that said, i am just changing my stratagy so in the end, it does not make a huge diff.

[Balthagor]

On the issue of the raptor missiles; when fired those missiles have chosen a target and will follow until they hit it or are shot down. If they where trying to hit a target in a hex that was accompanied by AA, the AA might be shooting them all down before they get there.

There are really two types of AA.

- Short range, fast reload. Good for stopping missiles, helicopters and planes that are attacking (therefore close air)
- Long Range, Slow reload. Things like Patriots and SA-10s. This can reach out far to chase away aircraft but take so long to reload they can easily be overwhelmed by missiles.

A good mix of both will make air attacks difficult.

Battlegoat! You have 1/2 of your forums who think that air is too weak and 1/2 of the forums that think that air is too strong! What you must do it make a easily modified variable controling the streanghth of AA weapons.

This would assume we think we balanced it wrong, with ppl pulling on both sides, makes us think we nailed it just right

[hithere]

i think that over all it is pretty good. i'm just saying that what if you did not have missles? don't the bombers themselves have attack values?

but either way, in my case there was only 1 MIM-14. with the amount of firepower i hit it with (3 B-2 units, 30+ aircraft), it should have been destroyed. whether it is a entrenchment issue or maybe i didn't spot something or what, i don't know. but i know i did not see any report of "enemy so-n-so destroyed" it may not even be a airpower issue, it may be that city entrenchment is to stong. i tried basically the same thing with about 150 tomahawk's against a MIM-14 and ?MIM-404? and neither were destroyed. the tomahawks unit attack is not super, but i did not see any real damage to either the AA or the artillary.

i'm not looking for a cake walk, but when i say there was no real damage, i mean, there was really no real damage. the only way to destroy AA is with ground forces, and this is not how the last 3 wars were fought

with that said, i just found another way to attack, but i think that it should be looked at.

[hithere]

this is basically a duplicate thread to this one:

http://www.bgforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4585

(and i though i was going crazy)

[magogian]

this is basically a duplicate thread to this one:

http://www.bgforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4585

(and i though i was going crazy)