World Market Supplying near infinite armies

Post by **Balthagor** » Jun 05 2005

You're also 17 years into a scenario and going beyond the design of the game. The scenarios are only designed to support 2-5 year games.

Glad you're enjoying it but you're sure to find LOTS of things that don't balance properly at that point.

As for the WM limited availability of units, it is an interesting idea. We'll review it with the rest of the suggestions.

Shog-goth · Post by **Shog-goth** » Jun 05 2005

Balthagor wrote:You're also 17 years into a scenario and going beyond the design of the game. The scenarios are only designed to support 2-5 year games.

Glad you're enjoying it but you're sure to find LOTS of things that don't balance properly at that point.

As for the WM limited availability of units, it is an interesting idea. We'll review it with the rest of the suggestions.

I know, but with Albania was the same after few years. And consider I've checked this only in 2021 but I don't exactly when this happened.

Simply I think that WM greatly unbalance the gameplay and, instead, AI should have the possibility to build itself Its facilities and units.

Decimatus · Post by **Decimatus** » Jun 05 2005

Balthagor, do you guys know why the economy goes all to hell after 5-10 years? I mean, it looks like it goes fine for awhile, and then it just goes nuts for no apparent reason.

Mojo · Post by **Mojo** » Jun 05 2005

Decimatus wrote:Balthagor, do you guys know why the economy goes all to hell after 5-10 years? I mean, it looks like it goes fine for awhile, and then it just goes nuts for no apparent reason.

Seems like a classic example of dynamic systems as denoted in chaos theory. I'm a layman, but I still like reading about it. From what I gather, small changes in initial conditions at t=0 (the inititial time of the game) can cause dramatic changes and wildly unexpected results as time moves forward. The more time that passes, the more things have changed from the initial "working economy".

Edit: To Balthagor, he's only 7 years into the scenario, not 14, the Africa map starts at 2014. I do have hope the some of the kinks in the economic system can be ironed out, so a map can be in a steady state for about 10 years gametime.

Edit #2: I think I may have what's causing at least some of the wonkiness of the economy as time passes. Perhaps all of those extra units the AI must maintain is dragging them down to such an extent that they cannot sustain a functional economy.

Shog-goth · Post by **Shog-goth** » Jun 05 2005

Mojo wrote: Edit: To Balthagor, he's only 7 years into the scenario, not 14, the Africa map starts at 2014. I do have hope the some of the kinks in the economic system can be ironed out, so a map can be in a steady state for about 10 years gametime.

Yes, you're right. I didn't noticed that.

Xetal · Post by **Xetal** » Jun 06 2005

Holy crap that blob-army is funny.

I noticed this in the New England senario to a MUCH smaller extent (as it only lasts 1 year). 10 months into the game Maine had 7 units on their capital, 7 units on every hex around their capital, and 3-4 units on every hex around those...

It was a blob in the making!

It seems like the problem is two-fold.

Firstly, they shouldn't be able to get a blob going in the first place due to realistic economic and military personel reasons.

Seocondly, they should deploy their troops better to defend their borders instead of keeping them all in a blob centered around their military outposts/capital.

Post by **Balthagor** » Jun 06 2005

We do have some suspicions, starting with the fact that the AI is ever on a build rush as it expects to be attacked. 15 years of living waiting to be attacked will have anyone a little messed up

Shog-goth · Post by **Shog-goth** » Jun 06 2005

Balthagor wrote:We do have some suspicions, starting with the fact that the AI is ever on a build rush as it expects to be attacked. 15 years of living waiting to be attacked will have anyone a little messed up

Not 15, I've played 7 years because African scenario starts in 2014.

And when I've attacked (err.. being attacked by) Namibian Fed. after few months they've already LOTS of units (near the capital of course).

Fortunately I've an old savegame of the same campaign: this is the situation after less than 2 YEAR of playing.

There're still too many units.

Baloogan · Post by **Baloogan** » Jun 06 2005

Balthagor wrote:We do have some suspicions, starting with the fact that the AI is ever on a build rush as it expects to be attacked. 15 years of living waiting to be attacked will have anyone a little messed up

Fix the AI then.

Gotthard · Post by **Gotthard** » Jun 06 2005

I've definately seen the same thing, especially with small countries... haveing 400, 600, 800 units...

Think the WM still needs to be tweaked... and the build order could be upped depending on which countries have belli towards it, and how powerful they are? Becuase they are all killin themselves with debt.

Shog-goth · Post by **Shog-goth** » Jun 06 2005

Gotthard wrote:I've definately seen the same thing, especially with small countries... haveing 400, 600, 800 units...

Think the WM still needs to be tweaked... and the build order could be upped depending on which countries have belli towards it, and how powerful they are? Becuase they are all killin themselves with debt.

Here we've another problem! There aren't killing themselves with debt. Instead most of them're keeping a balance surplus.

In most cases they receive form WM units with little maintance costs and they cut military expenses at minimum. So they can mantain their huge armies of thousand.

And yes: WM needs tweaking, no doubt. I understand that WM is more involved than actual UN but I think this is exagerated for gameplay balance.

Post by **Balthagor** » Jun 06 2005

k, send over a savegame, we'll use it to make notes. Thanks

Shog-goth · Post by **Shog-goth** » Jun 06 2005

Balthagor wrote:k, send over a savegame, we'll use it to make notes. Thanks

What savegame exactly do you want? After 2 or 7 years?

Post by **Balthagor** » Jun 06 2005

Both actually, we'll compare the difference.

I think my inbox is going to start to get full with all these user savegames

NorthernCanadian · Post by **NorthernCanadian** » Jun 09 2005

God, I hope the World Market gets tweaked... otherwise Africa is almost unplayable after about a year. I only slogged through by building over a hundred artillery and slowly blowing the blob to pieces...

I strongly agree with the idea that the WM should only be giving financial, resource, or technologicial aid, or maybe the occasional ONE unit (especially since its not 1 tank, but 1 tank battalion, for realism purposes)

I would also like to point out... that the original storyline says that the world market is encouraging uniting the world by any means... but frowns strongly on military unification... even though it supplies hordes of crappe to the poor.

And no matter what you do as SA, I gave thousands of units in gifts, aid, paid off all of my debts, had a strong domestic happiness and cultural level, the world market never, ever, ever, likes you... I feel like choking my minister when he asks "Shall I take steps to improve our relations?" There ARE NO STEPS.

I'm a huge fan of the game, but it seems to be geared more towards certain regions than others, and these other regions, such as Africa, have such HUGE gameplay discrepencies that it really ruins the play for them.