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I have just read your first two pages, but congratulations on establishing so many diplomatic successes - these are nearly an unknown concept to me, since I don't recall every having any permanent ones. I cannot even imagine how to manage a true alliance.

You are helping Japan fight off China? That just blows me away.

You did not state what difficulty level that you were playing at, so I assume that it is at the default - "Normal" difficulty.

LLAP

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"We have met the enemy and he is us."

I just got to the page where you capture Brazil.

Congrats on your effective use of your B-52s. I have never seen such a wide-spread or effective pre-emptive strike as your cruise-missile attack on SA.

I have a really bad feeling about your helping Japan defeat China. It sort of feels like you are creating a monster.

LLAP

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"We have met the enemy and he is us."

Good job.

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"We have met the enemy and he is us."

Felinis, i have NO idea what this is about or WHY you are acting so badly.

The only BS i detect, is from you.Watch the movies.There are a few in the AAR to demostrate just how EASY it is too aniliate the AI.

1

Watch the movies, they show how VERY easy it is to remove facilites even cities from the map regardless of how many units protect them.

The movie i made on the missile attack on UK http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... c&start=90 in which i annilate 90 facilites in moments.
OR watch the movie on the same page ,father up, in which i anniliate over 400 units in a matter of clicks of the clock.
OR watch the bombing movies i made in the AAR itself in which hundreds of units are destroyed by bombing raids again, with no units lost .

2) .

You didnt read the AAR at all. You obviously just scimmed thru it getting upset that you cant get such results.
Its the bombers that remove the greatest amount of enemy units in this AAR (it could be done with missiles removing the enemy units, but the bombers are far more effective).
The missiles remove airbases ,land bases, and any faciltiy that i deem should be.
When ground forces do roll thru, they are unlucky if they encouter any enemy units at all.
Again watch the movies, they show in GREAT DETAIL how its done.

BUT this IS ALL explianed in the AAR already,shame you didnt actually read it and instead got mad because you cant get these results clinging your "doctrine".

3)


BECAUSE my land units rarely IF EVER have to fight anything,bombers (mostly) and missiles remove almost ALL enemy units from an area BEFORE ground units move thru it.
AGAIN explained in detail in the AAR.

4)
And you do, despite how wrong you are.

5)

AND i think you owe me many here, but i wouldnt accept them anyway, so dont bother.
I do have to wonder why your posts are becoming so irrational lately.Like in your own AAR where you lash out at imaginary people "who have taken offense to your use of a mod".


6)


Maybe for you.But for the few who can see and plan beyond the real life doctrines they cling to in real life in the game, winning any scenario is easy once you see beyond your incorrect assumptions of what works in the game.

NOW although i dont think this will help you realize how mistaken you are,ill explain yet again how its done.

a)Build up a large amount of missiles and high damage bombers.

b)Use the missiles in large strikes to remove the enmy air facilites-which removes the enemy air force almost completely (some may escape to foruegn bases, like i show in the AAR in the russian air units in japanese bases situation)

c)use missiles to identify and destroy a large portion of an anemies anti-air units.This is quite easy, as they will show themselves when they fire on the missiles.If by water, and ships with long range guns are avialable, use them also to remove anti-air.You'll find if you cancel the target picked by teh ships enough times ,you can get them to pick the right stacks.AND anti-air gets maimed by AoE attacks.

At this point NO unit has been put in any risk at all.AND at this point the player can have destroyed hundreds of enemy units, without so much as having been fired upon in return.

d)once an area no longer shows any large concentrations of anti-air units, send in the bombers.Have the first waves destroy any remaining anti-air in the area, than turn them loose on the remaining enemy units in that area.

Most units will not even get a shot off against the heavy bombers like the B-52,And will be destroyed in mere seconds.

ALL OF THIS ALREADY EXPLAINED AND SHOWN IN THE AAR,with movies no less.

NOW the sea clearing is the most difficult no loss part of the game, and ive yet to actually succeed in doing so with no losses on a large map.

a)once again remove any air facilites, using missiles,because the aircraft in an area are the second most serious threat.

b)now move full stacks, i like to move 4 at a time of the best ships youve got,as they ARE gonna get attacked.Turn OFF their ability to opportunity attack land units.

c)Almost always , you wont find the subs til they attack.Imediately order the stack atatcked back out the way it came.The subs will focus on the one or two ships in that stack they are attacking, which allows the other 3 stacks of ships to destroy the subs.
ALSO
Some subs can be made to give themselves away with missiles.Simply fire missiles so that they pass over an area you wish to search on the way to their target.
Oddly some subs will try and shoot down the missiles, showing themselves.Once you know where they are, all you have to do is move into range and trick them into showing themselves again.
AND
Of course there is the fortunate fact,that many subs have missiles themselves which they will fire at ships, and give themselves away that way.

NOW the problem being, many subs wont attack the missiles AND many subs are in full stacks,even many stacks.So sometimes you simply cant order the ship attacked to retreat in time to save it.
AND
of course there is the occasional overstack which occurs when moving full stacks of ships which can sometimes push a unit a hex forward that you didnt want it to move to yet, as the area had not been searched yet.

Subs are the most common case of loss of unit i encounter.The ONLY one i havent found a no loss solution to yet.

Now id say im sorry your ranting here about things you havent even bothered to try, despite being given accurate and exact "walkthrus" on how to do so,but im not.
Other than wasting my time to reply, it really doesnt effect me one way of the other.

I am sorry you chose to act this way though, as the board is usually such a well behaved one.


I almost forgot, the difficulty is at very hard, but that matters little as the difficulty settings have almost NO effect on these simply strategies.

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This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

Felinis,

It isn't quite Kosher to assign knowledge or motives to another individual.

I don't assume tkobo is fudging things, and I wouldn't really care if he was. Tkobo has a different style of play than I do. While he states above:



He is talking about my style of play. I see SR2010 as a vehicle to model real world and near future politics, economics and combat. While techs and futuristic units are part of that, I tend not to veer into very unrealistic applications.

On the other hand, it is clear that Tkobo enjoys stretching the game to the limit. If I were to criticize him, it would be that his style relies on "gaminess" and flaws in the game design to acheive his victories -- however, I am not here to criticize him. And, I would not suggest that he is creating fiction -- for which I believe you should appologize to him. He has put together a very nice AAR, and obviously enjoys the game in a different manner than I do. I would be bored to death playing Tkobo's game, and he would probably feel overly restrained playing mine.

That is fine. There is no need to get testy about it. We are all a bit different, and we should embrace and enjoy that fact.

Regards,
Feltan

As moderator I guess the final word on issues falls to me;

Felinis, you are out of line. If you have issues of this sort before confronting another member I would suggest that you first consult with me or another moderator through PM. Dealing with such issues privately also avoids public recriminations. Tkobo's AAR has been of great interest to many people and your unfounded accusations not only ignore the time and effort put into creating this thread but are not even relevant. I have played MP games with Tkobo and seen videos of his gameplay and while his style is unique there is nothing in his AAR that cannot be reproduced with enough patience. He has also been helpful and forthcoming to users on the forum who have asked for clarification on his tactics and methods from combat to diplomacy and country management. His rank is well earned and should be respected.

Now to bring us back on topic, I’ll admit I did not read each post in its entirety, but I have come away with two very specific impressions from what I have read. First, I believe we have seen with SR2010 (and will again see with SR2020) two distinct styles of play. I thought of this while reading discussions on the Medieval II Total War forums, how some people comment they are playing the RTS as an RPG, tracking characters and deliberately keeping certain opposing regions alive or as allies to generate a story. I see Tkobo as such a player. I personally like the fact that our game offers such a creative outlet, I’m an old school RPG player (Battletech, AD&D, Paladium) and will always find the storytelling aspects of these games most satisfying. The other style of players are of course our wargamers who create epic battles using the way the AI does work to try and fight it out with the AI on a level field to see what they can achieve. I still believe this sort of player will be our majority user, but I like that we can satisfy both styles.

The second thing I’ve learned, that I suppose I already knew, is that no matter what you think the players will do in your game, they will always come up with things you didn’t think of. There are some areas where Tkobo’s AAR shows a lack of responsiveness on the part of our AI to some very specific tactics. I’ve realized this AAR will be most useful for finding “things to try” during beta testing. I have no doubt that as much as Tkobo enjoyed carpet bombing opposing forces into oblivion and keeping his casualty count low, like many of us he’d find it even more satisfying if such a thing was nearly impossible to achieve. I’m sure I’ll be consulting this AAR many times when the beta opens.

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Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

Really enjoying the AAR.

For what matters... I've been able to replicate tkobo's results in a lower scale... It can be done, with enough missiles, patience and time... Lots of time! I just don't like that style of playing the game...

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Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"
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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere.
Voltaire

My suggestion is that we ignore the rant and stay on topic.

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Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

I don't see the big deal. I've seen tkobo play, and I play in a slightly different but also 'overwhelming force' kind of way. Zero-loss games are not very difficult if you play this way. I've no doubt tkobo did what he said.

Besides, it's just an AAR. No reason for meanness. It's actually very funny, but this is the most civilized corner of the Internet I've ever seen. We have people here who have been around for years peacfully and respectfully trying to improve a game, and I like it like that.

So while I again stear us back on course ...

So red plays like Tkobo, anyone else? Has his AAR prompted anyone to change their style of play?

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Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

If any reasonable person wants, i can send a save game (size allowing) and instructions so that you can see exactly how easy this is.

The boring part, that i think many are referring to , is the build up.Not sure, i usually have enough going on that im not bored, but i can see how it might be so for others.

BUT once you have the air forces required, you'll find yourself fairly busy simply keeping the aircraft doing what you want them to do.They tend to rebase alot and often need to be aimed at new targets, as they often destroy the old one before the bombing/loiter order fades.

By the way, it was parly due to my experinces of Red's destroying me in multi that made me rethink my use of aircraft.He uses aircraft to devasting effect in multi.He doesnt go as extreme as i do against the AI, but he usually goes to war so fast in multi he doesnt have time to build the numbers i do against the AI I was usually his first target also
So really, its not Red doing something i do, but the reverse.
Reds way of destroying me,made me rethink a belief on what worked in the game, and than i expanded on it to the extreme.

In the begining of my playing this game, i found myself and read from others, that aircraft were ineffective.So i didnt use them and even posted suggesting others not to also.As bombers that is.They rocked to me, as missile platforms from the get go

BUT the simple problem was, i wasnt using them correctly.OR even the right aircraft for that matter.

It really is simple.And a few minutes using a save i think will show exactly that.

Now some saves are large, but we can use the free file service
http://www.yousendit.com/?home=true

I use it for game projects now, since i was pointed to it during a recent alpha by a dev team.

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This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

That kid is sick ... damn he spoiled this awesome AAR

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NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

Hopefully tokbo will continue. No need for him to stop due to one indvidual who sees duplicity where none exists.

Regards,
Feltan

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ETA Five Minutes ......

No problem.
I have the information/notes for 2 more small posts and one medium sized post stored.
I just havent gotten around to putting them together into coherent story entries yet.

Probably be a few days yet, as im kinda busy with other projects at the moment.

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This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM