REALLY NEED HELP WITH DIPLOMACY for WWIII Update 6 (4.6.1)

Discussion about the Diplomacy System in SR2010

Moderators: Legend, Balthagor, BattleGoat, Moderators

Message
Author
natoforces
Lieutenant
Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 26 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia

REALLY NEED HELP WITH DIPLOMACY for WWIII Update 6 (4.6.1)

#1 Post by natoforces » Jan 26 2007

Hi, could someone please help me with the situation I encounter that just really frustrate the life out of me! I try, and I try and I try to do what everyone has talked about in this forum particularly this Diplomacy topic!

I am playing as United States, in World War III scenario, with normal difficulty rating and the game has been updated to the latest update which is update 6, or version 4.6.1

Anyway, upon the start of the game I immediately reduce my "build capacity" to even less than sixth in the whole region, I deactivated almost all of sea port, airbase, land base and even outpost. I focus primarily on social spending to please my people, and I got the domestic approval rating of 47% more or less with the military rating at a steady 75%.

Anyway, just as the game suggest upon starting and just as in real life, I wanted to build a good relationship with Israel, British, and Australia; As they are the only nations that have only "indifferent" diplomatic relationship for both the government and civilization rating towards the US. So just as the forums suggested I started with all the little treaties to build a good ground, I started by offering embassy treaties, and as usual they hit back with a counter offer requesting for cash to be thrown with it, and I comply!

Cut long story short, I got all three of them (Israel, British and Australia) agreeing with me with all the little treaties, even the full transit treaty! The only treaties left is the mutual and missile defense plus the formal alliance and non aggresion pact, which what I really want!

However this is where the problem is: I got them agreed to all those little treaties, and yet their government and civilian bar are not increasing at all, I thought that it is too small to notice so I ignore it! But now I need them to be please at me and that their bar to increase, so that I can get them to agreed for a formal alliance, so they won't attack me should my troops past their territory in the future.

So, I gave them a 100million to 200million small gift without asking for anything back, I give those gift once a day, to all those three nations, (now here is the frustrating part) their government and civilian bar instead of increasing, it is actually decreasing, so they went from "indifferent" to "concerned"...however I keep at it just as some suggested, but they went to now "disapproving" towards me. It is so frustrating since I am the 6th if not 7th in build cap ranking for the whole map, and have 47% domestic approval and have no war, with peace DEFCON!

So how am I ever get them to agreed to become allied, if their bar never went up, I can understand if it is stay the same, but to "WENT DOWN" it really frustrate the life out of me, I try to give them commodities with money, I even give them a lot of social related technology instead of military ones for free, yet they still went down, from "indifferent" to now just about "outraged", I mean how come that be when another country is giving gifts to you, it should at least remains the same if not goes up for the bar, but not goes down!

So could anyone PLEASE...PLEASE...help! should I keep on giving? and by the way, can I just pause the game and give each country a repeated single cash-offer-for-none about 30 times? or once a day suffice? PLEASE HELP....PLEASE HELP!!! What should I do??? Thanking all of help in advance!

BigStone
General
Posts: 1390
Joined: Dec 22 2004
Location: Holland

#2 Post by BigStone » Jan 26 2007

The ww3 scenario is mainly build for "going to war".....
Better play first the regular scenarios/campaigns

GoodLuck
NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

natoforces
Lieutenant
Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 26 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Thanks for the input, ANYONE ELSE

#3 Post by natoforces » Jan 26 2007

Thanks for the input duly noted, but I seriously believe you could get allied in World War III scenario, perhaps if there's anyone out there who done it, please share on how he did it? is it many repeated gifts in one go, or one gift a day, and how do you bundle the gift?

Please anyone, more help please

BigStone
General
Posts: 1390
Joined: Dec 22 2004
Location: Holland

#4 Post by BigStone » Jan 26 2007

NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 19951
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

#5 Post by Balthagor » Jan 26 2007

Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

#6 Post by tkobo » Jan 26 2007

Diplomacy is VERY possible in the WW3 scenario.

It does take a huge amount of cash and resources to give as gifts though, so the amount of regions you can win over diplomatically at a given time is limited,more than anything else, by your free assets.

By the time i had won over canada , i had given them over 200billion.
My efforts to win over Britain so far have cost at least 130billion.
I am currently giving britian 4 billion a day, each day, as a seperate and new diplo deal.NOT a payment over time deal.
You can see , by the screens in the AAR, that it works well.

In the AAR above, i could have won over Mexico if i had been willing to throw more cash at them.
I simply didnt want to and felt it better "story" wise if i had a belligerent foe near by.

And remember your build cap at all times, as always, when trying to do diplo in the game.But you dont have to cripple yourself either.
Just make sure at least one region has a higher build cap than you, and diplomacy will be possible.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

dust off
General
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sep 23 2003
Location: UK

#7 Post by dust off » Jan 26 2007

And remember your build cap at all times, as always, when trying to do diplo in the game.But you dont have to cripple yourself either.
Just make sure at least one region has a higher build cap than you, and diplomacy will be possible
That's very interesting. I've been trying to keep my build cap as low as possible, which has been a little crippling.

BigStone
General
Posts: 1390
Joined: Dec 22 2004
Location: Holland

#8 Post by BigStone » Jan 26 2007

Keep in mind Dust off that Tkobo had a lot of help from his Red Haired Green Eyed Wrenches .... :lol:


Ohoh ... got to find me a new shelter ...... :D
NO MORE NOISY FISH [unless they are green & furiously]
I HAVE STILL A FISH IN MY EAR

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

#9 Post by tkobo » Jan 26 2007

Hmmm, hehehe, i guess i know what region to do one of my next missile movies on :P
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

natoforces
Lieutenant
Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 26 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Thanks Y'all

#10 Post by natoforces » Jan 26 2007

For all the help, thank you all...

And Tkobo, the advice is priceless, I'll start again now with that in mind, while we're on that subject Tkobo, does the money gift must be appropriated with how much cash you have in your treasury (so the richer you are, the more you have to give for the AI to appreciate the gift), or is it doesn't matter how much cash you have as long as you give a large amount of cash each time???

by the way the AAR is a blast, I seriously consider it to submit it as a curriculum essay for my university assignment :D

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

#11 Post by tkobo » Jan 26 2007

I get the feeling that the boost you get, is determined by the money you give vs the receiving nations overall economic strength.

As it seems you need less money to get the same or better reaction from smaller,poorer regions.

I cant say this is fact though, its just feeling based on personal exp, and could be wrong.

As the US, you can raise huge amounts of money- like 250+ billion just by selling off alot of your military units.
Big money in your aircraft and navy.And you really dont need much of eitehr even if things get ugly.

Than if you stoke up your oil production, and keep enough people nuetral to you, you can bring in huge amounts of cash in trade.

And remember ,once you get the target nation to the point that it will accept reasonable diplomatic deals, like tech sale diplo deals, you can get alot of the bribe money back from them to use on them or another diplomatic target.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

Il Duce
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 577
Joined: Aug 10 2005
Location: Venice - the Doge's palace on the Pacific.

Re: REALLY NEED HELP WITH DIPLOMACY for WWIII Update 6 (4.6.

#12 Post by Il Duce » Jan 26 2007

natoforces wrote:
...Anyway, upon the start of the game I immediately reduce my "build capacity" to even less than sixth in the whole region, I deactivated almost all of sea port, airbase, land base and even outpost. I focus primarily on social spending to please my people, and I got the domestic approval rating of 47% more or less with the military rating at a steady 75%.

...

Anyway, just as the game suggest upon starting and just as in real life, I wanted to build a good relationship with Israel, British, and Australia; As they are the only nations that have only "indifferent" diplomatic relationship for both the government and civilization rating towards the US. ...



Perhaps this is obtuse, but I gotta wonder why you want alliances with these particular nations? The essential question being "What's in it for them?" And particularly, what's in it for them that you couldn't offer without a publicly declared alliance?

Remember that when you formally ally [other than the five 'lesser' treaties], you are making a declaration that significantly shifts the focus of all parties. It is sometimes best to sit back and watch things develop [although in the campaigns ultimately everyone is allied with everyone against you, so it becomes meaningless]. What you might consider doing, and this is especially effective in WW3, is to force various regions into either making good on their alliances... OR, put them in a position where their treachery [in breaching an alliance with another party by inaction or explicit break] becomes public. And in this it is implicit that you are not a party to these agreements.

One way to do this is to cause a weakness in a region that becomes so appetizing to their ally that their ally must choose between aiding them by attacking you [at considerable risk and cost to themselves with little to gain], or invading the rear of their weakened ally.

Keeping neutrals supplied with economc aid [via trade pacts or tech gifts] is a great way to guard your flanks - you are doing what an ally should do, but you help your effective ally by not making them declare their allinace with you.

The way to score the success of this kind of activity is to keep an eye on your regional treaty integrity score - a number which is very overlooked and, from my point of view, establishes a limit on the range of other diplo ratings in other countries toward you. If you are obviously treacherous [a low integ rating] then other will shun or betray you. If you can force others to betray each other then their integ drops, which creates a climate of betrayal and deception that you stand apart from.

Declared alliances are rarely useful [unless you can get a third party to smash an ally for you while you appear to be helping it repel that invasion]. Effective aid alliances are very useful. Set the bar low and leap over it.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously [but otherwise, they do not worry and are happy].

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: REALLY NEED HELP WITH DIPLOMACY for WWIII Update 6 (4.6.

#13 Post by tkobo » Jan 27 2007

Il Duce wrote:

Keeping neutrals supplied with economc aid [via trade pacts or tech gifts] is a great way to guard your flanks - you are doing what an ally should do, but you help your effective ally by not making them declare their allinace with you.
That is a very good point.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
Feltan
General
Posts: 1151
Joined: Aug 20 2006
Location: MIDWEST USA

#14 Post by Feltan » Jan 28 2007

And the point everyone seems to be dancing around is this: diplomacy in 2010 is all very contrived. This is not how diplomacy works -- you do not bribe another country with $4B a day to prevent them from DOW'ing you. Yes, it may work in game terms -- but it simply strikes me as too silly to contemplate.

I do hope 2020 is better at this. The world scenario could be much more enjoyable with a more realistic diplo model.

Regards,
Feltan

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11833
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

#15 Post by tkobo » Jan 28 2007

While i agree that the "bribe" is too relied on in this game, i disagree strongly that real life doesnt work this way.

Subsidies, foreign aid,special trade rules, etc.. all help to shape policy in most modern real life nations.
To me, those are really bribes also."See things our way, and we will continue to send you blank" "See things our way and we will give you special trade relations, even though we'd like nothing more than your government to fall and be replaced""See things our way , and we will overlook you murdered thousands of your citizens that dared to protest against your govenment" etc...


Than, you can look at organizations like the UN.
Thats the kind of place you can see the really nasty bribes.The ones that even the nations (and their reps) taking part in ,know they need to keep hidden.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

Post Reply

Return to “Diplomacy - State Department”