Diplomacy Woes - Part II

Discussion about the Diplomacy System in SR2010

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tonystowe
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Diplomacy Woes - Part II

#1 Post by tonystowe » May 23 2006

While playing SA, in the Africa Campaign, I gave some military units to other countries and made an interesting discovery. Once the country accepted the military units, the units would immediately take on the nationality of that country and make a direct route movement from their location by either ground, air, or sea to its home country.

PROBLEM1: If the receiving country isn't directly connected to me then the units roam around the closest border forever. The occurrence was even more obvious while playing Madagascar.

Recommended SOLUTION: Once a country trades military units, those units need to be moved immediately just as the WM is currently moving units.

PROBLEM2: I was allowed to trade INF type units which should not be allowed due to INF units consisting of people. I watched as my troops changed their nationalities and marched off!

Recommend SOLUTION: Never allow this trade option. Trading military designs and military EQUIPMENT (tanks, arty, aircraft) is fine, however this shouldn't be allowed. The obvious reason being nationality, military personnel, etc.

Tony

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Re: Diplomacy Woes - Part II

#2 Post by Balthagor » May 23 2006

tonystowe wrote:Recommended SOLUTION: Once a country trades military units, those units need to be moved immediately just as the WM is currently moving units.
This has been discussed extensively before and we are against this solution. We intend to make the AI more aware of if it can get the units home or not but situations like Madagascar will exist until it knows how to get its units off of islands.
tonystowe wrote:Recommend SOLUTION: Never allow this trade option. Trading military designs and military EQUIPMENT (tanks, arty, aircraft) is fine, however this shouldn't be allowed. The obvious reason being nationality, military personnel, etc.
Not a problem, when you give infantry (or any unit) to another region, the crew for that unit are taken from the other region's reserve pool. There is an exception of if they have not enough reserves, don't remember if you get the crew for free in that case or if it comes from your troops (essentially hired out as mercenaries).

We've looked at both of this cases in the past and I'm confident we're using the appropriate solutions.
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#3 Post by Il Duce » May 23 2006

...I posted about this a while ago. It's particularly bad if you give aircraft. they fly to the border, orbit and crash.

I think you should seriously reconsider permitting the WM to transport given goods transparantly.

Anomalously, missiles that you give ARE transported - and not by launching them.

Please.
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#4 Post by Balthagor » May 23 2006

Il Duce wrote:...I posted about this a while ago...
You did indead! And it's actually thanks to your previous comments that I even know where to find the thread! ;)

I'll make further comments in that thread.
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tkobo
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#5 Post by tkobo » May 23 2006

"Anomalously, missiles that you give ARE transported - and not by launching them. "


Hahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahah !!!!!! VERY funny !
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#6 Post by Il Duce » May 23 2006

I think that comment related more to the discussion elsewhere about flipping an ally into an enemy while transiting...
But I digress. Please jump over the the AI thread, "A Nice Gift."
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#7 Post by tkobo » May 23 2006

I dont want to go off topic here to far, but to me that was just too funny.

The image immediately went thru my mind of a missile purchase delivery system in which when a region purchased missiles from you, you simply delivered them by firing them into the purchasing region :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


" WHAT act of war ????We were simply ,making delivery of your missile purchases !!!! "

Hhahahahhahahahahhah
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#8 Post by Il Duce » May 24 2006

That was the underlying motivation. And hey, that sure solves the problem of how to 'gracefully' declare on an ally, doncha think?
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#9 Post by tkobo » May 25 2006

Hahhahahaha.
And i can think of more than a few forum members who would embrace this missile delivery system very strongly .
Hhahahahhahah
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bergsjaeger
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#10 Post by bergsjaeger » May 25 2006

:lol: I would. And i have one time had missiles hit a regions units i wasn't at war with but course that was funny to me. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. i killed over 500 of a neutral regions men before they DoW me. It wasn't my fault they sent their units into my practice range.
Last edited by bergsjaeger on May 25 2006, edited 1 time in total.
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#11 Post by tkobo » May 25 2006

You were prime in my mind Berg :P :wink:
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bergsjaeger
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#12 Post by bergsjaeger » May 25 2006

:lol: well just had another accident at the firing range. I actually destroyed the unit. too bad it wasn't the intended target in a way. when a region at war with me surrenders their asking for the surrendered units to be slaughtered. Guess they never learn. "We safe now from that madman, he'll never fire at us in our new country." "What's all them pretty fires in the sky?" "Uh oh" "Run its the madman!" :lol: Its fun destroying stuff u didn't intend to destroy.
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#13 Post by AtomicBoboli » Jul 09 2006

Perhaps this could be resolved if it were possible to deploy a special unit (or the normal unit in a special state), that would allow a battalion limited ground movement, but still consider it "in reserve". This unit would represent trucks loaded with guns, tanks, jets or whatever makes a battalion a battalion, excluding the men themselves. This unit, of course, would have no attack whatsoever, and minimal defense, and cannot be brought out of reserve until it is brought to an land or air base, as appropriate.

Heck, it could even be capturable! There is insufficient utilization of captured equipment in the game, although realistically it would take quite a bit of time to recover enough to make a battalion of anything. Makes me think about boarding unarmed ships and seizing their cargo. Arrr!

Getting away from the tangent, the player transports this unit to his ally, and then trade it as if it were in your reserve pool. The AI nation would then issue it a RESERVE mission or AIR/SEA TRANSPORT mission (as appropriate) in order to get the unit to the nearest appropriate base.

Unfortunately, this does not solve the issue with trading to non-transit treaty nations, unless this unit, as well as any completely unarmed civilian ships or aircraft that may be needed to transport it, were allowed to cross over borders without causing a DOW. Considering that ships, trucks or aircraft are allowed to cross borders during the natural intercourse of trade and migration, this is not so unreasonable as it sounds.

Of course, being that these ships are loaded with military hardware may make some nations edgy. Certian relationships between governments, such as war, goods boycotts (military goods, in particular), controlled trade, or controlled migration may still inhibit the movement of these units.

Giving it zero sight range would also prevent the unit from being used as a spy, although such spying may not be a terribly unrealistic tactic. It would require further thought.

(EDIT: Whoops, performed a little thread necromancy! I am sorry.)

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#14 Post by Il Duce » Jul 09 2006

This topic has been discussed extensively under the thread 'A Nice Gift.' Suggest you review it.
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AtomicBoboli
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#15 Post by AtomicBoboli » Jul 09 2006

Hey, thanks. Admittedly, I did a forum search prior to posting, but failed to come up with anything relevant. Must not have been using it properly. Either that or my eagerness to get a whole bunch of stuff off my chest made me overlook the obvious.

I'll read it, and that will likely be the end of that. Don't worry about me resurrecting that thread either.

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