'The AI should contact the player first' thread

Discussion about the Diplomacy System in SR2010

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deanco
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Location: Paris, France

'The AI should contact the player first' thread

Post by deanco »

Sorry for the long post. I'm gonna get this off my chest, then I'm gonna shut up about it. I've seen enough comments on the boards to think that my premise has at least some truth behind it, some other people have noticed the same thing, so here goes.

My premise is this: The AI never, or almost never, contacts the player first (that is, out of the blue, the player has not already initiated contact) at the beginning of the game to get the ball rolling between the 2 regions. My opinion is that the AI should be more proactive in contacting the player at the beginning, the AI should get the ball rolling first, even if he doesn't keep it rolling. I think this would improve what is already an excellent game. My reasons are the following:

Personality and Drama
Realism
Video Game Canon

Personality and Drama. This is the most important reason. When the AI acts first, it gives it a personality. It's saying, 'hi'. And when you say hi, you engage the player. Hey, look, Moldavia wants to talk to me. He's interested to find out what the offer is. It's no longer an AI, it's a guy, a possible friend, a possible enemy. And it required no input from the player, the game made this happen. Cool.

Then, the nature of the offer reveals details about the AI's intentions, which furthur personalizes him. An example: Two regions, A and B. A is big and powerful and agressive, B is medium and less powerful. You're playing B, and A contacts you. He doesn't like you, but the game is programmed to contact the player no matter what at the beginning. So he makes an outrageous offer, he wants a bunch of nice tech and is willing to give you a pittance for it. If the player rejects (he finally had to click on something to keep the ball rolling), he has showed defiance towards the bigger region and has basically said 'you can't threaten me'. The AI is seen as a threatening type, he has been personalized into 'arrogant' 'dangerous' 'greedy'. So not only has the player been engaged, but each decision is defining his attitude towards the AI, putting a face on it. We have a story, we have drama, we have an AAR happening. And the game can provoke this, the player did nothing.

Realism: I'll let the realism guys step in here, but the current behavior of the AI doesn't seem very realistic either. As the leader of a country, it seems reasonable that the other regions should at least touch base with you at the beginning of the game to set priorities. 'Hi, my name is Madrid and I don't trust you, but I could use some petrol if you have some, and I *might* be willing to trade tech, make me an offer I can't refuse'.

Video Game Canon: I've played a lot of games that have diplomacy in them, and some were good and some were bad, but one common trait they all seem to share is, the AI contacts the player at the start and throughout the game to get and keep the ball rolling, even if the player doesn't do likewise. I can't remember one where I would think of this particular complaint. So we're used to this, and it seems strange when it's missing.

There's my reasons, fire away. :)

DeanCo--
naggy
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Post by naggy »

Even later on in the game...about the only diplomatic event that the AI triggers on its own is war.
TheRockFrog
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Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by TheRockFrog »

I play the game more as a wargame so I really don't care about all that diplomacy stuff you miss. There's no diplomacy in any of the war or strategy games I play so it doesn't matter to me at all...BUT, that's just me.
BigStone
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Location: Holland

Post by BigStone »

TheRockFrog wrote:.BUT, that's just me.
Pfffff... happy you've mentioned that.... :lol:

Cheers
isupreme
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

Post by isupreme »

I agree completely with the Deanco. A very nicely written statement it is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have been wondering/missing the a.i. contacting me.
ANd now that you mention it, having it do so would be a tremendous addition to the game. I believe it would help immerse us into the scene and give diplomacy more possiblities.
Kriegsspieler
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Posts: 134
Joined: May 24 2005
Location: Madison, WI

Post by Kriegsspieler »

I agree completely with deanco on this; it will become a much more interesting diplomatic game if Battlegoat will alter its thinking about the "script" of its game just a LITTLE and make the other regions a little more anxious to make contact. They could still turn on you if you screw up, of course!
JaguarUSF
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

Alliance Win?

Post by JaguarUSF »

I think part of the problem with AI alliances stems from the basic rules of the game: most of the scenarios are conquest, so you must eventually attack every other country on the map. If I knew this fact, I would be very hesitant to ally with any other country, because I know they would eventually turn on me. From this, I have a suggestion on an additional win condition:

ALLIANCE WIN: A winner is determined when all non-alliance members are defeated. The most powerful member of the alliance (determined by game score, diplo rating, or anything else) is the overall winner. This would allow the human player to continue in a campaign but as the overall winning country.

Although beyond the scope of the game, you could also rename the country to become a combination of the names of the allies: for example, Czech Republic and Slovakia would become Czechoslovakia. Or, Vermont and New Hampshire become Verhampshire :lol:
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