Trade and the AI

Post by **George Geczy** » Sep 24 2003

In the past on the forum there has been talk of AI Trading, including gripes about the 'less than intelligent' trades found in other strategy games.

Certainly some games have featured AI that makes silly deals, either offering or accepting things that don't make a lot of sense. Other games I've seen have been repetitively annoying, such as offering you to silly trades over and over (ie, "AI Player asks if you would like to trade nuclear technology for farming improvements", etc)

In SR2010 we certainly don't intend the AI to make silly deals, but the question is "how much out on a limb" should the AI go?

Some games have tried to resolve the above issues by simply not making many AI deals (having the AI reject anything that isn't clearly in its favour), and this also doesn't seem to be popular. So should the AI make "risky" deals, with the possibility of a few of these turning out to be ill-advised? Or should AI wheeling and dealing be a bit more conservative?

-- George.

3iff · Post by **3iff** » Sep 24 2003

Extremely tricky to judge.

Having silly deals is not good. Equally, having rigid deals where the AI always gets the benefit is not good.

There needs to be an area where deals are more flexible, perhaps based on trust/friendliness where deals can be slightly unbalanced.

It's always very difficult to judge values for traded items especially when it involves technologies instead of hardware/cash.

ehsteve · Post by **ehsteve** » Sep 24 2003

It's worth considering that the AI might be motivated to make some "silly deals" in order to boost its relations with other AI and live players. God knows I've made ludicrous deals trying to improve relations with AI players in other games....
The AI faction's leader attributes (if there are any) might play a role too. To use some historical examples: Is he the type to give missile secrets to the Chinese for nothing,(certainly a bad deal) or trade weapons to Iran for hostages?
I know it might be more detail than is reasonable to expect, but any deal is motivated by advantage, certainly the AI could get some intel on its neighbors and see something they like. Of course, putting them off too long might lead them to "come get it" i.e. Germany invading Poland over Danzig.

3iff · Post by **3iff** » Sep 25 2003

Thinking more about this...

Some silly deals are fine if they are paving the way to more deals and greater trust in the future. That also applies if the nation is in danger of being destroyed.

What I would like to see is that all players are treated alike, with no discrimination against human players. Very often you might find that AI players tend to 'gang up' on human players.

I did try the demo of Galactic Civilisations which had an interesting trade sequence. The trade area allows different things to trade (cash, territory, ships, techs) and when a deal is designed, text turns from red to green (or yellow?) to show the deal is acceptable. I haven't tried the full game to see how it develops though.

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Sep 30 2003

Yes it does get annoying if the AI contually offers silly deals. But, if all the AI nations are strictley conservative, then this doesn't give the player much chance to profit from deals. If it possible to include at this stage, then I think it might be an idea for nation's to have 'characters' so that some will be more conservative, others more risk taking. After all, nothing would be achieved without taking risks.

Post by **BattleGoat** » Sep 30 2003

Already covered! In fact, your own region will also be made dynamic by the personalities and political inclinations of the cabinet ministers you choose. And if you don't like how they run their departments, you can always replace them!

Ashbery76 · Post by **Ashbery76** » Sep 30 2003

On 2003-09-30 09:14, BattleGoat wrote:
And if you don't like how they run their departments, you can always replace them!

And what are the consequences to this action.

Post by **BattleGoat** » Sep 30 2003

Well, to paraphrase a famous philosopher, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" or maybe even worse

Every potential cabinet minister (there is a choice of 36 possible candidates vying for your 6 cabinet possitions) has different strengths and weaknesses and of course their own political leanings. Replacing them occasionally is quite common in government so there would not likely be any repercussions.

However... If you continually are replacing your ministers, then it will help to undermine whatever confidence your population has in your administration.

ehsteve · Post by **ehsteve** » Oct 01 2003

Sounds absolutely terrific!! In other games with a similar feature, there is seldom anybody to replace an ineffective or marginal "minister", or there's simply no difference at all. Hopefully the character of one's cabinet will have political as well as material effects...? A sense of impact on "national character" rather than simple min/max-ing...

Shutzen · Post by **Shutzen** » Dec 24 2003

I know I'm getting into the realm of the unimplemented features but here is an observation. When you are offering to exchange things with other players (on the diplomatic screen) you simply double click on the item and it moves down to the bottom box to be approved for the final deal. Actual units can be traded as well as plans for equipment. Just playing around with it, I realized that offered units look (too) similar to equipment plans. Yes, there is a number designation in front of units and not plans but I think it would be better if equipment plans were listed as "Plans for..." instead of simply the equipment name. Although it is a small distinction, I think it will clarify the deals and avoid potential misunderstanding.

And speaking of all the great treaties available... can they be grouped into several packages for easy implemention (Most favored nations, Allies...)? I can't imagine that we will have to go though and check each individual treaty for all of my neighbors. That would more than a little monotonous.

Post by **BattleGoat** » Dec 29 2003

Some treaties are already a "Group" of treaties. For instance, "Formal Alliance" includes Line of Sight and all transit treaties.

"Most Favoured Nation" to my knowledge is strictly a trade agreement, and more a gesture of goodwill than anything concrete. Correct me if that's wrong.

As to being able to tell "Units" from "Unit Designs", we'll see what we can do to put "Plans" in the descriptor.

Note : you can only trade military units that you have in "Reserve" so if there is something specific you want to offer, you first have to put it in reserves.

- David

Post by **BattleGoat** » Dec 29 2003

Oh yeah... I'm not sure if it's been put in since the beta build, but you can double click on items to have them added to the offer / request.