indirect fire issue ?

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 19 2006

Now the problem is my zums are not annilating the Caribbean navy.
All those ships are well within range of the zums guns,but the zums are only killing those units that are in the caribbean's own waters.

Now i cant find the posts, but i remember some talk about how units wont fire indirectly on owned,allied or nuetral hexes.
Is this correct ?

If so, than you can plainly see the problem these rules create.
IE my zums should be havbing a field day with the Caribbean navy, but are held back due to the indirect fire rules.

Post by **Balthagor** » Jun 20 2006

You are correct that they do not fire indirectly into allied or neutral hexes, because if they did it would trigger a war. I see your point here but in truth what the ships should do is fire directly with their guns but we don't give indirect fire units a direct fire attack range so there is no rating to know at what point they hit with direct fire. There had previously been some comment about having artillery fire direct when engaged in close combat and to adjust stats for the firing being direct but we found no way to achieve this in the current engine. I'm not sure what solution we can apply to this problem...

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 20 2006

I can see the reasoning and agree with it mostly as far as land hexes are concerned.
BUT since ocean hexes have no population (right ?) it doesnt make sense to me in relation to them.

Is there possibly an easy way to make ocean hexes an exception to these rules ?

Victarus · Post by **Victarus** » Jun 20 2006

Well if I see missiles landing of the coast of one of my cities, I'm going to assume your aim is a bit off and do something about it.

Between that and (realisticaly, at least) a potential for a shell/missile to land off-target, I'd say that firing into a neutral region's waters would be off-limits: they didn't claim it so you could waltz around and do whatever you wanted to it.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Jun 20 2006

Hahhahah, yes, in real life.

Thing is, in the game enemies can fight all out land battles in your (if your neutral and allied) cities.
Enemies can fight huge dogfights in your (if your neutral and allied) airspace.

I can sit in an allies(who is not at war with my enemy) land and launch missiles and artillary into that enemies land.

It gets even more strange for sea hexes as compared to land hexes when you factor in the WM.
Entire fleets can sit safely in WM territory safe from attack by you.Only to charge out of that WM territory when they feel the need.
Ground and air units cant even enter WM hexes.

As a fix ,I'd also setttle for no access to world market hexes for water units.Let the navies stack up in their own waters.And have WM water hexes no go, like thier air and land spaces are.

Victarus · Post by **Victarus** » Jun 20 2006

Well for the WM, no, its "neutrality" shouldn't count - the WM in that case just represents non-claimed areas, so there shouldn't be any problems firing into or out of it. The World Market should count as "at war" for that purpose, if only to make sense gameplay wise.

I have a workable, if elaborate, solution for the firing from a neutral thing - if another region fires from within your territory, regardless of what the target is, you get a message saying so. Option one is to allow it, option two (the AI default to avoid abuse) is to void any transit treaties since he abused the privilage (it wasn't a "fire weapons in my territory" treaty). Dealing with the latter is best discussed elsewhere. Expect treaty integrity to plummet for the attacker because of the un-agreed upon attack, though (is treaty integrity even used now?). This will help avoid players trying this multiple times against AI players with the single-salvo potential exploit (below).
What about the target? For every shot that comes from another's territory, your Belli against that region goes up a little - not enough to make a single shot justification for war, but enough so a lengthy period of fire causes an assumption that they're allowing it. If possible, a maximum per so many hours could be set to avoid shooting the belli to maximum in a single salvo, but it would make sense that such a full-scale attack would be met with hostility towards the direction it came from, innocence or not. Because of the drop in treaty integrity mentioned above, a player can only use this tactic once before AI regions decide that letting his units on their territory is a bad idea.