specal forces for SA

[SoB]

the recces should be there own uint (i can not do links) but look at the south african special forces league

only 900 ever complet there traning (of that 900 200 are dead) more people have climed mout everest

sucefully conduted exsap and exansion frome a disdate over a distant of 1000km

there is more

[The Khan]

SoB, you must realize that special forces for specific countries are made for specific situations. Special forces of your country must be made up of highly trained men of highest caliber, and armed with expensive weaponry for NOW.

Remember that the collapse of the world markets of their 65% value (which must be a disaster, a deep horror in itself, with billions of people becoming poor) must have made the acquiring and training of such men and arms impossible for a country like yours.

[SoB]

true but even with budjet cuts that haped in started in the1990s the specail force brigad training as increased to includ advanced urban traning and cointertersom whill maintaning the previos traning systym

witch means there are even more dangers

and weoponry realy give a recce a R7 or a AK47 he will still kill (and they have some realy advaced weopens withich will be easly go to 2040

[SoB]

ttry this one Has some links

http://flecha.co.uk


maby ia a true patriot( die for countrie i will kill for her no manter what the fool thinks they will all die if they try invad us)

[Feltan]

SoB,

Most young men feel the same way about their home country. Despite news media reports to the contrary, there are usually a lot of patriots.

However, most conflicts are determined by cold statistics: equipment, training, numbers and logistics. The human element tends to be rather equal among combatants, and it is a rare battle that is turned by courage and commitment -- those elements tend to be a given.

It might be depressing for you to contemplate, but most conflicts have an almost pre-determined quality before the first shot is fired. Heroes and heroism not withstanding, considering the technology level and then counting noses and aircraft and tanks and boxes of supplies is still the surest way to determine who will prevail.

I have no doubt that the South African special forces are a fine outfit. I am sure they are brave, well equiped and well trained. In any conflict they will give a fine account of themselves. But how many are there? Can they project and sustain themselves logistically? Are they supported by a combined arms force?

One of the things 2010 will demonstrate to you: any battalion of the truest patriots that are well equiped and well trained are moments away from destruction at the hands of a technological and numerically superior force.

Regards,
Feltan

[SoB]

true thay are few but that allso remves the logistic problems

second the 31 batlion were just the best light infertrie ever they and 61 mech batlion where the main force we had in angoala (along with the parbats and recces)

consder this the US demated the iraq armed forces in the 2 wars they had and the us were out numberd but they at air domnice we had at most 5000 men in angola and they add air supritrie and we were wining (the above post was because of the music on 31 batlion websit )

the will to win can be more of a influcn than you think(israli 1948 SA 1898-1902(and they said hitler was bad ) thes are tow that come to mind when a small badley equipet men win(ok so the brits won in the end but only becase they cheated )



PS : if any body else frome SA served in adifrit uint at the border you all so belong on the list 1SA inf, the fly cheats exta

[Lightbringer]

Feltan,

You sound like a father trying to convince his teenage son that the super hot slutty girl really isn't a good choice for girlfriend. Ain't gonna happen. Besides which, You and I happen to live in one of the world's richest sources of tech levels, noses, aircraft, tanks and boxes of supplies. Part of the reason that the United States sometimes has a surplus of non-patriotic young men, is that we have so much of the logistical stuff. Young men are patriotic because it is romantic to be that way. There is nothing romantic about smashing the crap out of anyone stupid enough to stand in your way over and over and over again. Patton was right, Americans love a winner, but there isn't as much emotional investment as when you give your heart to an underdog.

SoB-

Patriotism and guts will help win battles. Supplies, weapons and numbers wins wars. Make sure y'all have plenty of both.

be well,

-Light

[Feltan]

You sound like a father trying to convince his teenage son that the super hot slutty girl really isn't a good choice for girlfriend...

Light,

Good thing I don't have any sons, I am not sure I could keep a straight face trying to convince a boy of that fact.

Regards,
Feltan

[SoB]

now i try and covince him that the fat ugley sheman next door how as a sex till 30 police is the best choice

[The Khan]

It might be depressing for you to contemplate, but most conflicts have an almost pre-determined quality before the first shot is fired. Heroes and heroism not withstanding, considering the technology level and then counting noses and aircraft and tanks and boxes of supplies is still the surest way to determine who will prevail.

However, some conflicts still make us think otherwise. Vietnam. How did the pawn of a low tech communist warmachine stop the World's biggest superpower in its tracks?

Gallipoli. It may be in 1915, however it still has considerable modern elements, my little country had almost nothing. No national weapons, no tanks, no modern guns, no ships, no planes but a ragtag army of soldiers, mostly from my high school(yes my high school has its fame for not having any alumni for 3 years because it sent all the boys to the front). The enemy had a hundredfold in all of them. Ships, billion pounds of treasury, nigh invincible ships, modern cannons, airplanes, and men from a hundred colonies.(G'day mate!)

Yet they couldn't pass through the bayonet forest of men, and men who wouldn't fall even if their companies were reduced to less than 10 men. They simply didn't retreat, and died instead of turning one step backwards. Not to mentiom the human treatment of any injured or prisoner of any sides.

Such victories, pyhrric as they may be, give hope to romantics like us.

[Lightbringer]

How did the pawn of a low tech communist warmachine stop the World's biggest superpower in its tracks?

It was not the Communists in Asia that "defeated" us. It was our own homegrown leftists/socialists/communists that forced us to fight with both hands tied behind our backs and eventually withdraw (leaving millions of people to be slaughtered by Viet-Coms by the way...).

Who are these insidious and ruthless Communist operatives who would gleefully chortle as they signed the death warrants of millions of innocent lives and stopped a super power in it's tracks? They call themselves the Democratic Party. They forced our withdrawal using the congressional purse strings. Neither the Viet Cong, NVA, nor the Chinese had any real success aside from being able to keep running and hiding. (yes they won some battles when they could amass battalions against companies)

-Light

[Feltan]

However, some conflicts still make us think otherwise. Vietnam. How did the pawn of a low tech communist warmachine stop the World's biggest superpower in its tracks?

Gallipoli. It may be in 1915, however it still has considerable modern elements, my little country had almost nothing. No national weapons, no tanks, no modern guns, no ships, no planes but a ragtag army of soldiers, mostly from my high school(yes my high school has its fame for not having any alumni for 3 years because it sent all the boys to the front). The enemy had a hundredfold in all of them. Ships, billion pounds of treasury, nigh invincible ships, modern cannons, airplanes, and men from a hundred colonies.(G'day mate!)

Yet they couldn't pass through the bayonet forest of men, and men who wouldn't fall even if their companies were reduced to less than 10 men. They simply didn't retreat, and died instead of turning one step backwards. Not to mentiom the human treatment of any injured or prisoner of any sides.

Such victories, pyhrric as they may be, give hope to romantics like us.

Khan,

The equations don't change, there are just new variables introduced.

The tipping point in most of these calculations requires a 3:1 advantage for an attacker to win. Now, in the old days, that meant three times as many attackers as defenders. It meant headcount. However, when one modifies strength by technology, terrain, training, situation, combined arms, airpower, etc the numbers of combatants can vary a great deal from the conventional 3:1 rule-of-thumb.

A guerilla/unconventional war will modify a defender by approximately 3. To defeat an guerilla/unconventional force requires an attacker to have approximately a 10:1 force-on-force combat ratio. In Vietnam, the U.S. was simply unwilling to commit that many troops, and lacked the combat modifiers to greatly improve the efficiency of troops committed. If you look carefully, the recent "surge" in Iraq was predicated on a 10:1 advantage over the insurgents in key geographies -- and guess what, insurgent activity declined by about 80+%. When the old army chief-of-staff told Rumsfeld it would take 500K troops to secure Iraq, he wasn't kidding and he knew what he was talking about -- of course Rumsfeld forced him into retirement for daring to speak the truth, but I digress.

Gallipoli -- like guerilla warfare, a successful amphibious invasion and breakout requires considerably more than a conventional 3:1 to succeed. The Brits didn't commit enough combat power to the invasion. They had a little affair going on in France at the time. While strategically innovative, the invasion was poorly conceived at an operational level. The Turk defense was indeed heroic -- but heroism was also displayed by the poor bastards that got dumped off on beach unsuited to support an amphibious assault. I am sure this battle is the thing of lore and legend in Turkey, and frankly it probably should be. However, it is really a story of gross mismanagement by, none other than, Winston Churchill -- the First Lord of the Admiralty at the time. He got sacked because of this battle, but luckily learned his lesson for the follow-on challenges against Hitler.

Regards,
Feltan

[The Khan]

but heroism was also displayed by the poor bastards that got dumped off on beach unsuited to support an amphibious assault.

A history teacher said the markings for the right coast were carried away by stream, other one said a fisherman replaced them intentionally

Of course. The ANZACS are also praised here as worthy combatants.

The Mustafa Kemal Atatürk Memorial has an honoured place on ANZAC Day parades in Canberra, Australia. Mustafa Kemal's commemorating speech on the loss of thousands of Turkish and Anzac soldiers in Gallipoli is today inscribed on a monument at Anzac Cove:

"Those heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives… you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours… You, the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries, wipe away your tears. Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land, they have become our sons as well."

Rest in peace, what can I say? By the way, my grandgrandpa died there too (my Father's parents are from gallipoli) and his son, my Grandpa was used to swim at the exact coasts at his free time when he became young(30's and 40's, **** poor country, what's to do for fun? Swin at coast), and would collect bucket fulls of bullets and casings to sell them to junk dealer or sometimes give them to the museum, as sometimes bullets were fused to each other when striking each other! Not to mention one time recovering a skull partly shattered with a bullet. Creepy.

Grandma says the very hills and coasts have unnatural howling sounds at night even when there was no wind...Oh well, I'll cease rambling.

Who are these insidious and ruthless Communist operatives who would gleefully chortle as they signed the death warrants of millions of innocent lives and stopped a super power in it's tracks? They call themselves the Democratic Party.

Democrats have a secret agenda and are intending to secretly destroy America by weakening it just as Republicans.

Think about it carefully before replying.

[SoB]

If you push a cowerd in to a corner he can becom a hero

in the game series close combat i have seen the last meber of a three man reccon team go herioc and rush a half trak and grendad it(he was the killed by the tiger tank next to it)

this hapens in real life i now events where a t55 was noket out by intry who shot the comder and grenad the hatch