Commanche Program Cancelled

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Fobok
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Post by Fobok »

I just found this on Wargamer forums, and thought maybe it might be of concern here.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/02/23/he ... index.html
ilkhan
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Post by ilkhan »

I should think it will stay in the list of things that can be built. The prototypes are built and we could probably start mass production of it right now if we wanted. I would think that an American region would be able to build it in the future if it pleased them to do so. You just may not start the game with them thats all.

IMHO :smile:
JXai
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Post by JXai »

The game needs future units anyway...who is to say the production won't eventually be picked up?
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Leave it in definately.The world situation in the game would make such a unit a definate want-where as congress in their "ultimate wisdom" doesnt believe the unit serves a vital purpose in our world as it stands now.
I heard a rumor that the commanche was gonna be replaced (mission wise) by a fire scout type vehicle.
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

Yes, the unit will still be available. The only thing this changes is that none of the US regions will have the Comanche pre-researched at the start of the game. It's tech level will stay the same so many regions will be able to get it fairly easily. It is of course restricted to US building regions (US, Canada, Taiwan and South Korea).
Fobok
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Post by Fobok »

I'm glad to hear that, I like the sound of this helicopter. :smile: Though the $60 million price tag they quoted in the CNN video is a bit expensive, could be worth it in a world like the game's going to present.
Slash78
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Post by Slash78 »

You know what? This administration never fails to amaze me. And they have the gaul to say the Clinton Administration was 'bad' for the military. True, it wasn't the greatest, but who was? Reagan? Spend trillons on new equipment without updating or upgrading much of the old equipment. And if anyone cares to look into it, it was Cheney, as Secretary of Defense, who recommended and started implementing all the "Clinton Era" military cutbacks.

They cancel the Crusader and push along the Stryker. Now this. >:[
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Ashbery76
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Post by Ashbery76 »

This should be canned as a unit as we will never see it.The recon job of the future belongs to advanced UAV's, not recon helicopters..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ashbery76 on 2004-02-25 10:42 ]</font>
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

Why should it be canned as a unit? If someone wants to finish funding research of a stealth helicopter that should be able to outperforme the now legendary Longbow, why should we not have such a unit?
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Post by Juergen »

Ashbery I dont see why hypothetical units should be cut,there is plenty of time till 2010.
The technology is there and I dont see why it wouldnt be usefull.
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Ashbery76
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Post by Ashbery76 »

"The Comanche was intended to be a light reconnaissance helicopter with stealth capabilities. But advances in UAVs have suggested that they might do that job better, while simple rocket-propelled grenade and missile attacks on US helicopters in Iraq have shown that the Comanche's stealthiness would not be as useful as it was thought at the 1983 inception of the programme, when it was designed to face Soviet air defense systems".
http://www.janes.com/defence/land_force ... _2_n.shtml

Hence, it will never be needed because the idea of a stealth helicopter is flawed.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Wow,once again a Janes writer makes an opinion sound air tight while basing it on things he doesnt know.
Just gotta love these "expert forecasters/analysts" somedays.

#1 -the commanche was NOT meant for urban combat.Hence the irag situation as it stands now is NOT even close to a competant way to judge the helicopters value.

#2 -Since no-one who will/can tell us about the effectiveness of the helicopters stealth will actaully do so-the Janes writers assumption on how effective it would/could be is pure opinion on his part.

#3 -The longbow has shown itself to be extremely effective in the open combat situations it has been employed in.However the longbows needed help by the way of the elimination of radar locations in order to be as effective as they were.If the Commanche's stealth was even remotely effective-it would likely have not reguired as much of this "help",if any at all for its penetrations.
Stealth is the way of the past,and its gonna be the way of the future.


In real life-Now if there is a light combat recon umv ready for service that can do what the commanche can do,equal to or better,than I dont have a problem with its cancellation.
I however have no knowledge of one.I doubt either congress or the janes writer does either.

In game terms-There is absolutely no good reason to not include any unit that could have possible value from the players choices.Even obsolete equpiment-which while it may be so for one region in the game,can also be pure gold for another region, should be included as possible.
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

The idea is only flawed based on the current conflict. I don't like the word flawed here, but I do agree that a helicopter that is hard to detect by radar would be just as vulnerable to the types of attack the US is currently facing.

If we agree that the Comanche does not suit itself well to the current conflict we should then try and determine if there are any situations it does lend itself to properly. If the answer is no, it does not lend itself well to a single situation, then I might consider removing the unit from the list.

As I recall, the intentions behind the Comanche program where to provide a unit that could penetrate enemy territory relatively unseen and be able to deliver a good strike capability to a limited range of targets. If the US where to collapse into various state powers (remember, everything must relate to the game) then we would be seeing opposing forces equipped with high grade detection equipment. Using the current beta as an example, if Nevada researched far enough to get the Comanche, it could cross southern Utah to attack Colorado and not be detected until it was well into Colorado state unless one of these players had good spotting here. If the Colorado player had stationed some BGM-109 Gryphon launchers here with Tomahawks pointed at Nevada, taking these out might be the action that wins the game. At the same time, if the Comanche sees a build up of forces on the Utah/Colorado border, that information could be sold to other players. The Comanche would be susceptible to the same issues as other helicopters, specifically any reasonably effective anti air, but its stealth strength might be able to keep it from being seen and thus avoid attack.

Any reason this scenario would not work?

FYI, I was posting at the same time as Tkobo so my answer is a little out of order... but it sounds like we agree :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Balthagor on 2004-02-25 17:29 ]</font>
Slash78
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Post by Slash78 »

The Commanche was also to be quieter and more agile then the Apache. This would help against RPGs and small arms fire.

Sure, it didn't help much vs. the Hulk, but nothing much would. HaHa
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Maybe congress saw the movie and confused it for real life ? :wink:
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