Finnish Military

Junkers · Post by **Junkers** » Dec 23 2003

I am quite new to post in this forum, however I have been reading for a while. I am also running the beta.
Yet I did not find any information considering the scandinavian troops. I have learned that you are being very accurate with, for example, the locations of North American troops, based in reality, in the game.

It is a small detail, but, when the game is finished, as a finlander myself, I would DEFINETELY like to play as Finland or whatever you plan to make remain of the EU, and, well, kick some ass that I wont define here.
So, back to the question, how much detail and accuracy is there with the Scandinavian military-locations&amounts?
Already by now, with little research, I think I could provide you with some information considering the Finnish, and also other Scandinavian(Sweden,Norway) military info or corrections, and some Karelian Russian base locations & estimated amounts.
12th January 2004 I will leave for the Finnish Military, and well, dont know how much, but this _will_ provide me with at least some kind of first hand information. Dont think a lot, though.

Well, thanks for reading.

Post by **Balthagor** » Dec 23 2003

Sounds great! I've acutally completed the Nordic Regions map (Finland/Sweden/Denmark/Norway)and I think I've been very acurrate about the units I gave each region but had little details on where they should be stationed. We've played the map a few times ourselves and I think we've seen Sweden win twice and the others once each. The only thing that was really notable about Finland, Norway and Denmark is that the players don't start with any tank designs pre-researched. Granted, it only takes about 60 days to get a top rated tank (less if you concentrate the research) but I couldn't find any indication that Finland or the others maintain any current tank manufacturing industries. This does give Sweden an edge since their CV 90-120 tank is very current. I also have put Finland's unit access to the Russian equipment, not the special european since I believe they've been more influenced by Russia over the last decades. The other thing that is still missing is the implimentation of River crossing and Amphibious will be invaluable to this map since each of these regions maintains a strong mobil force for island patrols.

Junkers · Post by **Junkers** » Dec 24 2003

The locations are easy, at least for Finland that is. I will provide you with those asap.

Finland has used Russian T-72M1 battletanks and BMP-I and BMP-II assault-tanks, until this day, but is upgrading into German Leopard 2A4 and Swedish Stridsfordon-9.
However they will not retire all T-72s totally yet, but will do some changes and they will remain in the service.

However Finland does manufacture APCs; PASIs, that are completely Finnish design. They are often amphibious apcs, Ive seen them go on water. I think I will be wiser soon.

I will provide you with amounts also, I know they are somewhere, I have seen them.

Post by **Balthagor** » Dec 29 2003

I went over the Finland forces and did add the Leopards, but I found no indication they are actually getting any Stridsvagens.

I already had the XA-180 and XA-200 on the map and yes, they are fully amphibious.

Innocence · Post by **Innocence** » Apr 17 2004

On 2003-12-23 20:18, Hanibal wrote:
the only country that has a significant military industry is sweden (karl gustaf, bofors, etc) the remaining countries their military industry does not compare with that of sweden and balthagor is corect only sweden has tank manufacturing capabilities)

Indeed. My own country (Denmark) is relying entirely on (sometimes outdated) NATO/US merchandise. Hell, our current standing navy consists of two corvettes and IIRC an old submarine - go go go!

.
I guess Sweden has retained it's weapon industry due to it's independance from NATO... oh yea and due to the great monetary bounties

As for "how a new nordic war would fare": The Swedes would surely possess superiour military hardware, but the Norwegians could use their worldclass skiing for tactical advantages, the Fins their highly evolved communication lines (Nokia cell-phones) and the Danes would only put up a fight if the invanders threatened their breweries.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Innocence on 2004-04-17 13:50 ]</font>

OXA · Post by **OXA** » Apr 17 2004

Innocence love you analysis..

but you forget that the norwegian proberbly could just drown all the swedes, danes and finns in a big lake of oil.. that way the norwegians should be the clear winners..

Or perhaps they could hose them down with the black gold and put everyone on fire?? No that is way to nasty not scandinavian style at all..

Innocence · Post by **Innocence** » Apr 18 2004

you forget that the norwegian proberbly could just drown all the swedes, danes and finns in a big lake of oil

Ah yes. Will that feature be implemented too?

One might wonder how come Norway has no sheiks with all that oil. Then again the name "Sheik Haakon" isn't really as intimidating as say "Sheik Abdul-al-Yaffar"

Post by **George Geczy** » Apr 19 2004

The Nordic Scenario design is actually pretty interesting to play, a 4-player scenario with some very tough supply line issues in the north.

Denmark tends to be the "sit back and wait to see everyone else kill themselves" player; in general the Oresund Bridge from Copenahgen in Denmark to Malmo
in Sweden is blown to prevent any easy land assaults. Sweden usually goes for the quick victory, but Norway holds the key oil production and a very defensible mountain border that is hard to cross. Finland can be the key if it decides to ally with one or the other.

Sorry, but the Breweries are not included.

-- George.

Post by **Balthagor** » Apr 19 2004

George also missed the fact that the Nordic map is being updated to 5 players. Since we are making a game where you can "Start from anywhere" we sometimes run into small countries that don't fit well into the model or border multiple maps and could go anywhere. Estonia is being added to this map for a few reasons but mostly because it fits. Lith./Latv. Where added to the Ukraine/Romania/Belarus/Moldova map but Estonia was a tight fit. This will also mean that in Campaign mode, winning the Nordic map will give you a few access points into Europe and Russia. Obviously Estonia will try even harder to stay under the radar and count on diplomacy and WM support to survive. Then again, Having regions that start in positions like these adds a lot of degrees of difficutly to the game without changing "difficulty levels".

herr neumann · Post by **herr neumann** » Apr 20 2004

WHAT!! There was no Estonia in the game?! I almost had a heart attack. Me being from Estonia and as probably everybody, would like to start from my home region.

"Obviously Estonia will try even harder to stay under the radar and count on diplomacy and WM support to survive."

Well just look how I take over the world with our mighty 2-division army.

BTW it was a wise policy decision to group Estonia with Scandinavian countries. You make some estonian politicians really happy. Maybe you could get a governmental subsidy for selling game in Estonia for this fact

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: herr neumann on 2004-04-19 22:23 ]</font>

Post by **Balthagor** » Apr 20 2004

hey, I'm cheap, if they want to send checks to the company offices signed to me, I'll be sure to continue saying nice things about estonia

marvelous · Post by **marvelous** » May 14 2004

Hanibal wrote:the only country that has a significant military industry is sweden (karl gustaf, bofors, etc) the remaining countries their military industry does not compare with that of sweden and balthagor is corect only sweden has tank manufacturing capabilities)

I'd say that the finnish manufacturer Patria is quite big too.
http://www.patria.fi/index.asp?id=CBD0F ... F4D3D5C7BA
I found a mention about xa-180 and xa-200, how about the AMV -serie?
http://www.patria.fi/index.asp?id=CBD0F ... F4D3D5C7BA

And yes, Finland has already some of those swedish/finnish made CV-90's.

btw. How is the army size measured? Finland has 420 000 (trained conscripts) men in war-time army, while Sweden only 210 000 (trained conscript) //due to the fact that they (sweden) are downgrading their military.

I'm really looking forward for this game. Keep up the good work!

Post by **Balthagor** » May 14 2004

We have the XA-200 listed as the XA-200 AMV. It would seem we combined them.

As for the army sizes, my sources contradict your comments on Sweden

CONSCRIPTION
Sweden has only a small number of professional soldiers, relying heavily on conscription and maintaining a very large reserve force. Conscripts in the army and navy serve for 7 1/2 to 15 months, while the term of service in the air force is 8 to 12 months.
Following active duty, citizens are obligated to remain part of the reserve until age 47. Enlisted personnel serve on average about three weeks every four years, while NCOs and officers serve three weeks every two years. During 1995, about 48,000 personnel took part in refresher training. Sweden ca n mobilize about 570,000 reserves, including: 350,000 army, 70,000 air force, 50,000 navy, and 100,000 Home Guard troops.

This compares to a total of 220,000 reserves in Normay. The coutries will start with reserves based on this numbers less active personel in bases and deployed units.

Post by **Balthagor** » May 14 2004

Oops,you where comparing to Finland. You are correct there, I have Finland's numbers at 485,000 reserves