Unit strength vs. combat stats

[szabfer]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out which attribute is more important in combat: the strength of the unit or it's attributes.

- does strength relevant in the attack "power" of an unit or is it just something like the "hit point" of an unit? So, if an unit with str 100 shots/attacks, will it cause more damage for an enemy unit than a unit with the same type but only with str 50? What is the damage ratio of these units - 1:2 (same as str)?


Let's take an example: the famous and widely used light infantry has the following main stats:
str: 70 (max 104)
soft attack: 14
hard attack: 10
close attack: 20
close def: 18

Compared to an other infantry unit, like FV4333 Stormer:
str: 54 (max 80)
soft attack: 21
hard attack: 20
close attack: 20
close def: 20

- as close combat values are almost the same, is it true that the light infantry performs better just because it's strength greater by 30%?

- in other combat modes (where soft/hard attack is relevant) would the light infantry perform as well as the basic Stormer (str 54) if I max the strength of the light infantry (str 104). For example, hard attack of Stormer is double of the Light inf, but light inf strength is almost the double of the Stormer's strength in this case...

Any comment would help... I'm not sure, if it worth to build other infantry type units than "light infantry".

[Balthagor]

Strength is actually the number of "squads" in the battalion so a light infantry would be essentially 70 humvees where the stormer battalion is only 54 IFVs. It is treated somewhat as hit points since when there are no more squads the battalion is dead but the attack values are multiplied by the strength during combat resolution (along with a dozen other factors).

So really both attributes are equally important but most important is to use them in the right situation. If an Anti Tank unit is attacking, the light infantry would last much longer since it is a soft target and the AT units have (generally) a hight hard attack and very low soft attack. Defending a city from artillery supproted troops, the Stormer would be better since hard targets have a better indirect defense value.

[szabfer]

Thanks for the reply. I understand that other factors (like hard/soft attribute) are also important, but I was more corious about the attack strength of an unit - so as you mentioned, greater strength means bigger attack value.

[Balthagor]

yes

[Sebastiaan]

Returning to your combat example, it it correct to say that

- the total close combat attack value of light infantry is 70 x 20 = 1400
- the total close combat attack vslue of stormer infantry = 54 x 20 = 1080

or does it work like that?

[Balthagor]

I believe so, but if you're getting that specific, I better double check with George...

[George Geczy]

Returning to your combat example, it it correct to say that

- the total close combat attack value of light infantry is 70 x 20 = 1400
- the total close combat attack vslue of stormer infantry = 54 x 20 = 1080

This is basically correct. Of course, there are more factors: you would also multiply by efficiency, and equipment with a higher initiative value will 'reload' faster, meaning possibly getting in more shots in a given time period. Terrain defense is another big factor if the attack/defend units are not in the same type of terrain.

If one (or both) of the units is in 'close combat' terrain (urban, dense forest, etc), then the close combat attack/defense values are used instead of the hard/soft values. (ie, attacking into a close combat hex, uses close combat attack; defending while in a close combat hex, uses close defense value).

-- George.

[red]

I wonder if efficiency affects the usefulness of defense values as well?

[The_Blind_One]

I know this isn't the place to ask...

but if ur soft attack is 12, ur defense is 14...does this mean u get no damage? (taking all other factors stay the same, ceteris paribus clausule)

does this apply to close attack and defense values aswell?

How do the attack and defense values work with each other?

[Sebastiaan]

Yes, I wondered that question also. I guess that the higher the difference between offen and defence, the higher the change an attach can kill a defender unt. But the exact formula would be realy intresting to know to clculate wether one unit with better defence or offence would be more effective versus another unit.

[George Geczy]

I wonder if efficiency affects the usefulness of defense values as well?

Yes, efficiency pretty much has a direct effect on the attack and defense values.

but if ur soft attack is 12, ur defense is 14...does this mean u get no damage? ... does this apply to close attack and defense values aswell? ... How do the attack and defense values work with each other?

If a unit is capable of attacking another one (in range & has an attack value), then there pretty much always is "some" damage. However, if the attack value is low enough, or the defense high enough, the damage could be insignificantly small.

As a general rule, attack and defense values are meant to be relative to other attack and defense values - a unit with an attack of 20 will cause, all other strengths and variables being equal, double the damage of a unit with attack of 10. A unit with defense of 20 will have only half the damage of a unit with defense of 10.

Close attack/defense values are substituted for the regular attack/defense values when the situation warrants (attacking into an urban hex, for instance).

The exact forumulas are quite complex (taking in to account efficiency, training, terrain, morale, movement, etc etc), but the basic idea is that the numbers are relative to each other in each group (attack numbers, defense numbers).

One note: Remember that when you're looking at stats for ships and missiles, the numbers represent a single 'ship' or 'missile' versus the 'per squad' numbers for units like tanks and Air Defense. For instance, an AA unit with 20 squads gets its attack value multipled by 20; the ship is always quantity one (or a percentage of one if it is damaged).

-- George.

[Sebastiaan]

So if I understand it correctly, there is not deflection? So lets say that an infantry unit shooting at a tank with a riffle has a very low hard attack (5), but because the infantry unit can consist of many squads (100), it can effectivly become a very effective anti tank unit simply because of it strength in numbers?

[The_Blind_One]

So if I understand it correctly, there is not deflection? So lets say that an infantry unit shooting at a tank with a riffle has a very low hard attack (5), but because the infantry unit can consist of many squads (100), it can effectivly become a very effective anti tank unit simply because of it strength in numbers?

Yes that's correct, but u also got to understand that is about 700 soldiers vs 38 tanks. These soldiers have handgrenade's and other measures for taking out those tanks, with any bit of luck they could potentially destroy the tanks if they were surprised. So it's possible

[bergsjaeger]

well 2 examples on soldiers taking out tanks. LAWs and RPGs. At least one soldier will have one and with a perfect shot they could do damage to the tank.

[Balthagor]

They are also likely to take heavy casualties during the fight...