Tech Tree

Post by **Balthagor** » Aug 19 2003

Well, we have been working on the implementation of the tech tree and I should be posting some details by the end of next week, but I could use some ideas from everyone. Here's the question; For any given piece of military equipment, name the one or two most important technologies needed to build/design/create that unit. Some examples would be;

F-22 Raptor; Thrust Vectoring and Stealth aircraft designs.
F-14 Tomcat; Fly-by-Wire
Challenger Tanks; Chobham Armor

Obviously, the F-22 also needs Fly-by-Wire, But Thrust Vectoring is more important and in fact, Fly-by-wire is a prerequisite for Thrust Vectoring. Same for Radar absorbent materials is a prerequisite for Stealth Aircraft designs.

The game supports maximum of two tech requirements per unit and 2 prerequisites pre technology so we want to concentrate on the most important ones. There is even question of how detailed we want to get. We could add a tech item for 120mm tank guns and make that a requirement for all tanks or we could even make a tech item for the L-11 tank gun and make that a requirement for the Challenger in specific. Just remember, the more detailed we get, the longer it will take to complete. I really donâ€™t see us getting as detailed as I suggest here since we donâ€™t want to bog down the player in too much detail. Iâ€™m more concerned about achieving

_________________
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Balthagor on 2003-08-19 12:24 ]</font>

3iff · Post by **3iff** » Aug 20 2003

Would it be possible to have a list of items and perhaps a list of technologies?

I presume this is similar to the Civ tech tree...

Post by **Balthagor** » Aug 20 2003

To be honest, if I had a list of technologies, I wouldn't need to post this particular thread.

The list of items would be any of the units spreadsheets available for download from the website. Obviously these are only the "military" research items but I thought I would start with these. Once we get a list worth posting, I might make the technologies available for download. We'll wait and see.

I'm looking for technologies that where key steps in the develpment of any of the units we use in the game. Since last night I've been thinking about it as well and thought of with Nuclear reactors for ship engines and Carrier launch catapults for aircraft carriers.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Aug 21 2003

On 2003-08-20 05:52, Balthagor wrote:
To be honest, if I had a list of technologies, I wouldn't need to post this particular thread.

So you basically have now tech tree and no idea what technologies you are going to put into it...

I could be wrong but making a solid tech tree that works well with a game takes a lot of time.
I always assumed that you would already have at least a list of some items that you would like to implement into the tech tree.

Post by **Balthagor** » Aug 21 2003

We do have a list of about 60 items, but with only names and little notes. Obviously, there are some tech tree items that are needed for areas of the game that we've already incorporated but little time has been spent on the tech tree. You are correct that it takes a lot of time, but this is one of my major priorities at the momment so it will get the time it needs. Heck, everything about making an in depth game like this takes time. The tech tree waited this long because it wasn't functional in the game until late last week. Now that it's working, I'm devoting a lot of my time to fleshing it out and getting an interesting tech tree.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Aug 21 2003

Well one of the problems is that it is hard to pin down certain key technologies.
We are not talking about "bridge building" and steam engines anymore like in Civ.
Problem is that we are so used to the technology that surounds us that we dont notice it anymore.

As far as the tank cannon is concerned:
In case you just take the "120mm tank gun" would that mean that that a player could shift without problem from producing T-80s to producing Leopards?
That wouldnt be good.

I think it is critical that the player (or AI) has to actually make a choice between two strategies (in this case two different sets of technology that he could get).
Both should have their pros and cons.

And about the 60 items:
Well just write them down if it is possible Id like to know which areas of the game are actually standard.

Post by **George Geczy** » Aug 24 2003

Even though the actual in-game implementation of research is coming a bit late, it has actually been in planning for more than a year, so I don't think you have to worry about a "patched-in" approach.

We also have a couple of advantages due to our game time-line. Since the game starts relatively close to modern times, we can make good decisions about how technologies relate to each other and their relative costs just by looking at the real world. We take regions and give them an "equivalent to modern" tech rating (ie, a rating of "90" would mean that the region has the tech capabilities of the best that the real year 1990 would have to offer). We also look at what types of techs regions already have (ie, Canada has nuclear science, but not nuclear weapons, etc).

Since the timespan of a game campaign would be less than 10 years, we can also create tech items from looking at where modern research is headed - obvious stuff like fuel cells, fusion, cloning, etc can be extrapolated. We don't have a need to get into really weird things like "warp drive" etc due to the near-futureness of the game. Because of that, the tech tree should have only limited play-balance problems, other than the obvious unbalancing effects of certain techs (ie nuclear weapons).

We also made the decision to put "unit designs" into the tech tree as specific items, for instance even after having all the advanced attack/bomber techs you'd still need to research a design like the F117 to fly them in. We've combined this with "regionalization", which means that if you start from Europe, you would research a something like the EuroFighter Typhoon instead of the F-22 Raptor.

Having said all that, we are still looking for ideas and suggestions on the tech stuff, especially on the "future" end of the spectrum - what types of things would people want to make sure they can try research? Battlefield lasers? Unmanned Mech fighters? Fossil fuel replacements? Intelligent TV Reality Shows? (I know, I know, some things are just not possible

)

-- George.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Aug 26 2003

A small question regarding the "regionalization":

What would a player,who started in europe,do if he wants to be able to produce bombers? (as far as I have checked there are no bombers that can be produced in an european country)

What could this player "do on his own" without having to interact with any other player?

These questions of course would also apply to other rare pieces of equipment.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Juergen on 2003-08-26 05:49 ]</font>

Post by **Balthagor** » Aug 26 2003

That's one that falls on my shoulders... I'll be making fictional bomber designs that would be available within one or two tech levels of most starting region levels that players could research. However, they probably won't be anywhere near as good as the high tech bombers on the first run. Their best bet if they want bombers... convince the World Market to sell them the designs for the B2. But this will be very difficult. The World Market won't be giving stealth bomber designs to just anyone! More likely, the World Market would offer B-52 and TU-22 bomber designs to everyone.

On a related comment, I will probably be making the old British Canberra available incase anyone is really desperate for a bomber in a european region.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Aug 26 2003

On 2003-08-26 08:00, Balthagor wrote:

Their best bet if they want bombers... convince the World Market to sell them the designs for the B2. But this will be very difficult. The World Market won't be giving stealth bomber designs to just anyone! More likely, the World Market would offer B-52 and TU-22 bomber designs to everyone.

On a related comment, I will probably be making the old British Canberra available incase anyone is really desperate for a bomber in a european region.

Sounds fair for a "normal scenario" but I what if you are playing in the "whole world scenario"?
As far as I understand there no longer is a wolrd market that would be willing to sell you plans.
The other players are more or less directly competing with you so I dont see them parting with plans for a B2.
And in the "whole world scenario" you will need sophisticated bombers.
And I dont think that the Canberra falls in this category.
Dont get me wrong some third world country might actually like it,provided its cheap and easily available of course.

Post by **Balthagor** » Aug 26 2003

You seem to be mixing two different things... Do you mean you played the campaing and are now on the world scenario? Or did you invite Tkobo, 3iff and Hellfish6 to your house for a LAN game and want to play the world map? In the first case, as you worked your way up through the campaigns you likely advance by at least 5-6 tech levels and would have been able to purchase or research designs in previous scenarios. In the second case, besides having to foot the bill for a lot of international flights, when setting up a multiplayer game you can adjust the research model so that eveyrone is on an equal footing.

I suppose if you played a single player scenario, selected the world map and stared in Europe, it would depend on the starting conditions we set for the Europe map. I would guess that the Europe player on the World Map will start with a tech level around 112. But if you played this and selected Africa, there is a good chance that you won't have any bombers...