Ideas requested for firing ranges...

Post by **George Geczy** » Sep 30 2004

We're fixing a bug where moving artillery units sometimes get first shot against stationary units, but there are actually a couple of ways to handle this, so we'd like some ideas.

The stationary guy should get first shot. So, should we:

a) Cause the moving unit to be penalized with a 'can't fire delay' each time it enters a new hex? or

b) Reduce the firing range of units that are moving?

In action most artillery can shoot within 10 minutes of stopping, and then be on the move again, so there isn't need for a huge 'movement penalty'. They do already suffer a penalty against their attack strength (ie, 'couldn't take as long to aim carefully' penalty). But we do need to add something to make sure the defender gets the first shot.

Another question is whether experience should affect the artillery ranges - should units with greater experience gain a benefit of 10 to 20 % on their total range? This could end up confusing, as every artillery unit would have a different max range depending upon its experience level.

Thoughts?

Baloogan · Post by **Baloogan** » Sep 30 2004

I vote for A, but it cant be a huge long time... as you said it should be about 10mins...

Draken · Post by **Draken** » Sep 30 2004

I vote for A) too. Make sense.

Another question is whether experience should affect the artillery ranges - should units with greater experience gain a benefit of 10 to 20 % on their total range? This could end up confusing, as every artillery unit would have a different max range depending upon its experience level.

No. In real life the experience of the crew does not affect range. Precition and rate of of fire perhaps but range no.

chandrill · Post by **chandrill** » Sep 30 2004

I like A, but not too long, just long enough to let the defender get first shot.

Also, range depends on the system, not the person shooting it, so it shouldn't be affected by exp. More experience should increase accuracy at the longer ranges though.

India 51A · Post by **India 51A** » Oct 02 2004

Draken wrote:I vote for A) too. Make sense.

Another question is whether experience should affect the artillery ranges - should units with greater experience gain a benefit of 10 to 20 % on their total range? This could end up confusing, as every artillery unit would have a different max range depending upon its experience level.
No. In real life the experience of the crew does not affect range. Precition and rate of of fire perhaps but range no.

Agreed, the ranges of artillery and mortars has nothing to do with the experince of the crews. The speed that they can get into action, and their skill with their particular weapon is increased by experience. One other thing you have to take into account, is the experience and efficiency of the FOO, in the case of Artillery, and the MFC in the case of Mortars. These are the guys who actually identify the target, work out the grid reference and bearing, and send that information back to the Mortar Line or Artillery battery, and make corrections to adjusting rounds before Firing For Effect (FFE).

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Oct 02 2004

I also believe option A to be to more realistic solution for this problem,reducing the range of a unit sounds odd.
Setting up firing solutions and getting equipment in place doesnt take longer just because the unit is farther away.

India 51A · Post by **India 51A** » Oct 02 2004

George Geczy wrote:Another question is whether experience should affect the artillery ranges - should units with greater experience gain a benefit of 10 to 20 % on their total range? This could end up confusing, as every artillery unit would have a different max range depending upon its experience level.

Thoughts?

This is just not possible. Artillery and Mortar units have fixed maximum ranges, no amount of training or experience can make an artillery piece or a Mortar fire any further than it's maximum range!

Aurore · Post by **Aurore** » Oct 04 2004

Post by **George Geczy** » Oct 04 2004

Good comment about the differences in WWII, where the crew had to do a few more things non-automated.

It was also my thought that non-experienced crews would have less success being 'on target' at maximum range, but since experience already effects the damage amount, that might be good enough for now.

Experience and initiative (which is based on type of equipment) is already taken in to account in various calculations, and so could still result in some moving units getting first shot anyways.

-- George.

Draken · Post by **Draken** » Oct 04 2004

On the other hand with older units, such as ww2 and before, crew experience certainly did affect range, I checked with a spanish friend who did his millitary service in the artillery in the 1950's and since the crews did the maths by hand, the accuracy of the calculations and what they chose to take into account made a big impact on accuracy and range.

I'm sorry but I disagree... You can not put experience as a variable in a physic equation!

Indeed experience affect how easy and fast the crew put the shells on target, specially when they dont have apropiate fire control system!

I recall when my granfather (Lt. Colonel, Artillery, Venezuela's army) was teaching me to use logaritms (I had an HP41 calculator by the time) that they used logarims tables to do all the maths related to the firing solution.

EDIT: Aurore, after reading my post it sounded to me as if I was trying to pick up a fight but I can assure you that it is not my intention!!!

Aurore · Post by **Aurore** » Oct 10 2004

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Oct 11 2004

That was certainly correct for WW2 and of course today its still true that the accuracy of calculations will affect range...but today calculations are simply no problem.

Everyone has a pocket calculator at home and its safe to say that this wont change in 2010.
There is no need to ignore parameters like wind or humidity because computers wont be slowed down by complex calculations.

And I think its also safe to assume that the values about wind strenght and humidity will also simply be around and pretty accurate since the estimates will be made by experienced weathermen and then passed around by radio.

Aurore · Post by **Aurore** » Oct 11 2004

India 51A · Post by **India 51A** » Oct 25 2004

You cannot alter or exceed the published maximum range of an artillery piece or mortar round just by being more experienced than another. Take it from me, an experienced former British Infantry Mortar Fire Controller. You can come up with all the fancy arguments you like, but the maximum range of a weapon cannot be increased by experience, only accuracy and speed are effected by experience.

Baloogan · Post by **Baloogan** » Oct 25 2004

What if you put a 'little english' on it?

Ideas requested for firing ranges...

Ideas requested for firing ranges...

Re: Ideas requested for firing ranges...