Time to Build Military Units

Post by **George Geczy** » Dec 19 2002

A question has been raised about how long it takes (via info in the equipment file) to build a military unit.

First, it should be noted that a military unit is built at a "Military Base" but generally encompasses two things: Training the Soldiers, and manufacturing the Equipment.

Second, our standard on-map units are Battalion-level. So, for example, an Infantry Battalion in Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs) would tend to number about 50 squads, with each squad made up of 9 soldiers and 1 APC vehicle.

Right now, a battalion of Infantry in an M113 APC takes about two weeks to "build/train". When broken down, this means that it takes 1/3rd of a day to build a full M113 Armoured Personnel Carrier.

My personal view here is that this is not unreasonable, as what we are simulating is the training of the entire battalion at once (hence approx 450 men train for two weeks) and the APC's are built on an assembly line, which would mean that the 50 vehicles in two weeks would not be unusual.

This building/training effort takes one 'slot' of military base production, and in the game a region of about 5 million in population would generally have about 10 'slots' of production for ground units (ie, the region could produce 10 battalions at once).

Any Thoughts?

-- George.
<Lead Programmer, BattleGoat Studios>

3iff · Post by **3iff** » Dec 19 2002

Is this training, the training of civilians to soldiers or soldiers (that have had basic training) to become 'expert' soldiers??

I would have thought 2 weeks to train civilians is a bit short - but if it's the same for everybody then it doesn't really matter.

The real function of this is how quickly a country can gear up for war without having to maintain a large standing army.

Post by **BattleGoat** » Dec 19 2002

When you give an order to build a unit, it draws personnel from your own pool of reserve military personnel. So it is assumed that they've already gone through basic training and it just trains them on the equipment they are assigned to.

Hellfish6 · Post by **Hellfish6** » Dec 19 2002

In US wartime conditions, I think it's 6-8 weeks minimum to train the average citizen to be a soldier.

However, if you had a pool of trained soldiers already, 2 weeks is certainly not much to train to use APCs. My real-life APC training was only 40 hours.

I really doubt that you could build 50 vehicles in 2 weeks. Even basic M-113s, unless you had a pre-existing assembly lines.

I'd make it a month, minumum, to train and build a battalion. More for tanks (maintenance is 90% of the training - and it ain't easy to learn how to break tracks, let alone change engines, boresight a main gun or even aim a cannon.)

I'd allow for longer production times that would allow an increase in experience levels. Take one month to build a battalion and you get conscripts. Take three months, and you get green troops. Six months and you get regulars.

3iff · Post by **3iff** » Dec 20 2002

Battlegoat: That sounds ok to me. I assumed that we were training soldiers after their basic training but I couldn't remember if that had been mentioned elsewhere.

Hellfish: Those times might be too long for the scale of the game - or perhaps not...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 3iff on 2002-12-20 07:15 ]</font>

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Dec 20 2002

Hmm when you say "from your own pool of reserve military personnel" this makes me think that they are already trained, just not with the "new" batalion they are about to become.
If so,then I'd think the 2 weeks was acceptable.
Just because they havent been asigned to their own shiny new apcs doesnt mean they dont have training on them already.Especially with todays advanced simulator farms used for mech training.
I remember seeing a show on cable(A&E) that was about this huge tank simulator warehouse (i use the word "warehouse" because it really was a huge building with what looked to be well over 30 seperate large simulator boxs) and they siad that there were a couple of these training facilities scattered around the country and that they could all network for massive training sessions (one huge wan party).They mentioned that there were other facilties like the one they were showing, but for helo training also.

Post by **George Geczy** » Dec 22 2002

I know Chris had intended to add "Training Simulators" as a tech tree item to do something (improve efficiency? Reduce battalion build times? or somesuch...)

But yes, our model currently handles "recruitment" to reserves (with optional conscription), and then pulls from the reserves to match up to equipment.

The 'assembly lines' are also assumed to be in place when a base is built - it takes 45 to 90 days to build a base complex (depending upon its size), and then it can start producing units.

So, from what I read above, the battalion build/train times we use don't seem to be out of whack...

Thanks all for the feedback.

-- George.

Slash78 · Post by **Slash78** » May 12 2003

Maybe you should be able to build equipment, then train troops. That is X amount of industry can make X amount of tanks or APCs per month. Then, when you have a battalion worth or vehicles (or several battalions at the end of the month) then your reservist train for that unit. 3 to 4 months is fairly typical (for US forces) to train for infantry or armored units. Ranger training takes long. Also, it to build 'elite' units like Rangers, Marines, Airborne you might want to have a 'washout' rate. Some think like 500 people to make a 400 or 450 person battalion. And another thing, i think you should have a training level and an experience level (that is if you use experience. A 'vetran' conscript (poorly trained) unit isn't going to have bonuses as a 'vetran' regular or elite unit. Training levels could possible go conscript, regular, elite and experiance go green, seasoned, vetran, battle hardened.

Post by **Balthagor** » May 13 2003

We do already have experience levels and training is considered part of the units experience and part of it's efficiency.

As for the build times, I think that at this stage we are unlikely to change what's been set unless there was a major push for a change. We've been beta testing the game for a while and the build times seem to work out well.