Weapons of Mass Destruction

Post by **Balthagor** » May 17 2003

News media and communications are not simulated in the game. These where unfortunatly left on the cutting room floor... perhaps in a later version.

Slash78 · Post by **Slash78** » May 18 2003

But now how am I suppose to brainwash my populous without 'reality' TV prgrams and 24 hours of false news?

You can't get any more realistic then that.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » May 19 2003

Well,I also dont know the answer to that question...but what I do know is that this topic should be discussed in another thread.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » May 29 2003

On 2003-05-16 11:23, Balthagor wrote:
Most of this stuff is beyond me so it may be a few days before you see a response to this one. When David get's back from E3 I'm hoping he'll have more details for you.

Well...David seems to be back

Post by **George Geczy** » Jun 03 2003

Well, I guess I'll take a crack at some of them for now:

>1)Chemical Weapons - Are these weapons capable of contaminaiting the terrain,so it can barley be used? Can chemical weapons affect more than one hex?

Yes on both counts, though we still have to research exactly what sort of long term issues might be expected with different chem or bio weapons.

>Some chemical weapons,especially mustard gas are very stable and long lived so it would make sense that these weapons affect terrain for a good ammount of time.

However, most Chem weapons like gas would tend to dissipate after use, so long term effects will likely be limited. I'm sure there are some research papers on this somehwere, seems like the type of thing somebody would spend money looking into...

>In RL chemical weapons (like many other WMD) are far more lethal to the civilian population than to troops since troops are better protected against them,is this reflected in the game?

This is reflected both in terms of general lethality and also the fact the units that have an NBC protection ability will have much greater resistance than regular troops.

>2)Nuclear Weapons - As far as I have heard nuclear weapons are capable of affecting multiple hexes per warhead(depends on yield and scale of the map) but does the fallout also depend on the yield (or even the type) of the warhead?

Yes, though we will be researching the exact effects.

>As far as I understand the fallout creates "radiation zones",what effects will these zones have?

Low property values, for one...
Discounts on glow-in-the-dark toys...
An over-abundance of long-haired freaky-people...

Beyond all that, a general abundance of death will be likely.

>Is it possible to clear radiation zones?

Outside of waiting for it to clear, I don't believe that there are any "radiation-be-gone" technologies that could be used. Maybe some really large windmills pointing at your neighbor...

>I have heard that the most lethal radiation dies off in about a week,but the more longer lived isotopes stay. Will this also happen in the game?

To be researched.

>When nuclear reactors are destroyed (by force) would this also create a radiation zone?

Not yet decided. If you listen to the Nuke Power companies, they claim that even in the case of attack it would be most likely that failsafes would prevent a meltdown. Something more akin to Three Mile Island would be likely, which really didn't do much more than create a few two-headed frogs...

Though we may end up simulating Chernobyl style issues, which while very serious were not all that deadly (at least not short term).

-- George.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Aug 16 2003

Well whats the latest word about how these weapons will be simulated in the game?
Information about how they will work are somewhat hard to come by...as far as I know currently nothing is implemented but what is the plan?

Will this games WMD combat be as complex (or hopefully even more so

) as the one in Bravo Romeo Delta?
A very good game about nuclear combat BTW.
If you never played this game you can download it at "The Underdogs",and before you ask:
Yes it is legal,at least as far as the site claims.

I think I just give you the link:
http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=143

Post by **George Geczy** » Aug 18 2003

We have not progressed much yet on the WMD issues, they are likely a September/October timeline.

I have, however, downloaded the game you suggested, and if it actually runs on my system I'll take a look sometime soon.

-- George.

LORD_BUNGLA · Post by **LORD_BUNGLA** » Sep 07 2003

On 2002-11-14 04:15, tkobo wrote:
Not so sure about that.There is extremely strong evidence that china ,tiawan,india and isreal also have cruise missile tech and at least prototypes of their own design already.
I also wouldnt be suprised to find that Ukraine,England,Iran and a few others also have at least a good start on their own design of cruise missile.

I also remember reading something not so long ago about a "poor man's" cruise missile that can be built using the gps systems on the open market now (in cars,scuba equipment,camping gear,etc.. ).

This isnt the article I read ,but it basically says the same things so it will do.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... Found=true

Oops hit worn button

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tkobo on 2002-11-14 04:23 ]</font>

Your right and recently Russia helped India develop it's first cruise missile, the Brahmos.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Sep 07 2003

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/ ... _2024.html

http://www.cdiss.org/tabanaly.htm

Some interesting reading on cruise missiles.

dust off · Post by **dust off** » Sep 30 2003

A key choice for a theatre commander would be the type of chemical weapon used. That is whether to use persitent agents to create longer term hassle for the enemy (usually thick oilly substance that will still dispate to weather). Or non persiatent agents designed to get the enemy to mask up and reduce thier efficiency just before your troops role over possibly unprotected (gases and droplets)

ehsteve · Post by **ehsteve** » Oct 01 2003

Granted, it's kind of an older issue in this thread, but my two cents on the automatic retaliation to WMD attack, especially nuclear, is that there should be an option for auto-response a la WarGames or Dr. Strangelove.
I believe in executive decision as a matter of principle in reality, but the possibility could be explored without harming the game.

"Greater Mattylvania announces the automation of its nuclear deterrent" Imagine the diplomatic repurcussions!

Also, if you get hit, and don't retaliate, I should think there would be a strong chance for a coup to succeed, as your people and military would likely be screaming for enemy blood...?

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Oct 02 2003

As far as I know the game already pauses a soon as a missile launch is detected.

So I asume that the game might also pause as soon as somoene uses any kind of WMD.

And there is also the option of doing a "strategical launch" which launches all missiles that you have pretargeted at an opponent.
Since these targets are already stored in the databases of the missiles and silos I would asume that the reaction time would be very low so most missiles can be launched before the silos can be hit by enemy missiles(In case you are attacked).

But still it would be interesting to know what is currently planned for SR 2010.

What I would like to see would not only be one "strategic launch" option but also many different "warplans".
These plans would include targets,warheads and possible types of deliveries (ICBM,SLBM,planes) for the warheads and the computer might choose the best way to hit the targets with the nukes.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Juergen on 2003-10-02 09:59 ]</font>

Post by **Balthagor** » Oct 03 2003

I donâ€™t want to get into the game pausing because thatâ€™s stuff that David designed, but I can tell you that there is certainly a â€œlaunch controlâ€ screen that allows you to select a region, what youâ€™ve targeted at them, and selectively launch any or all missiles against them. If you have set 3 of the missiles in your first silo against 3 of my bases and 2 more against industries but only one of these missiles is nuclear, you could select to launch all the conventional missiles only and it is done easily from one screen. David is quite proud of the design for that screen so as soon as itâ€™s actually working (still some issues with targeting) Iâ€™ll include it in one of our screenshots.

Now this only deals with ICBM missiles, not missiles loaded onto units. Missiles on units are flagged as yes/no whether the unit can fire them at will. Things like Exocets default to yes, things like the French nuclear ASMP Cruise missile are no. You could perhaps we need a â€œauthorize all missilesâ€ setting near this screen. Iâ€™ll get back to you on this.

Perhaps to simulate the limited time that the player has to react, once a missile launch has triggered a pause, maybe we should restrict them to accessing the menus and not let them touch the map. This would allow the player to issues some broad orders and launch pre-targeted missiles but new missiles could not be targeted until after the current set hits...?

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Oct 03 2003

Sounds very good

The "launch screen" will most surely be very usefull.
Altough there is something that concerns me.

Why do you exclude missiles on units?

SLMBs are strategic missiles in every respect.
Just like ICBMs they carry MIRVs,are extremely fast,reach their targets quickly and do have a great range.
Im not sure if SLBMs are a great tool for pinpoint attacks and it wouldnt make sense to launch just one of them,this is what missiles like the ASMP and Tomahawk are good for.
The "launch screen" seems to be a very good tool for macromanaging strategic attacks,why shouldnt the SLBM benefit from this as well?

And some ICBMs (like the Sickle and Topol) are mobile to increase their survival,so they are loaded on units.

Post by **Balthagor** » Oct 03 2003

You got me on this one...

I've been trying to corner George into talking about this for over a week now but he keeps burying himself in the code to avoid me. I see exactly what your refering to and will see about merging the two.

The simple solution may be the fact that non ICBM/SLBM missiles dont' get pre-targetted. We're still having some difficulties with missiles in the code so I can't finish answering this yet. Soon though...