subs ? maybe a way to give them some more purpose

Fantnet · Post by **Fantnet** » Jul 20 2004

for instance if your playing in the northwest map, what about strikes far inland like idaho, nevada, or montanta? get me now?

Post by **Balthagor** » Jul 20 2004

Juergen is right, this can already be done. Tomahawks reach 1250km inland and when you get ICBMs you can hit West Virginia or farther from California...

Fantnet · Post by **Fantnet** » Jul 20 2004

from the sea deployed from subs?

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Jul 20 2004

Correct.
Straight out of the water.

Oleoay · Post by **Oleoay** » Jan 02 2005

Well, besides damaging merchant fleets, the biggest use of submarines are the missile launching quick-strike capability.. but the maps are so small region-wise that I wonder if firing a missile from a sub makes any sense.

Juergen · Post by **Juergen** » Jan 02 2005

Later there will be a world map which will be quite huge so the big range of SLBMs and SLCMs will really come in handy.

Unlike airfields or silos subs are stealthy and its quite difficult to locate them thus they ensure MAD.

With their high stealth value and pratically unlimited travelling range they can sneak up to a target and attack it from many angles.
And since they are so close there will be less time to react and the missiles will have a higher chance to pentetrate the defenses.

Post by **Balthagor** » Jan 02 2005

I've used Tomahawks launched from SSBNs very effectively in the US SE map (Florida to Arkansas to Kentucky area).

Penta · Post by **Penta** » Jan 02 2005

Bit point: In the France map, I noticed...

The Strait of Gibraltar is a vital chokepoint for world shipping. It's 13km wide at its narrowest point, but the map shows it several hexes wide. Huhh?

chancellor · Post by **chancellor** » Feb 18 2005

bump. That's rather significant I think.

Post by **Balthagor** » Feb 18 2005

I supose but there was little I could say on that. The satellite imagery we use has not been modified there so the straight of Gibraltar is as wide as it is. Unless someone says that they thing a certain hex that is water should be land I don't think I'll change it.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Mar 28 2005

tkobo wrote:Most commerce still travels by ship I believe.
With this in mind, can you give subs the ability to block/inhibit trade with other regions ?
Maybe have it so if an enemy sub is in your waters you lose a % of every deal/trade you make with the outside world.
This idea could even be used to give stealth ships some more value in game as they also would be hard to spot and therefore avoid by the merchants carrying your trade goods.

You could have cool little news flashes telling the regions ruler that he lost x amount of goods due to raids on his shipping.

Any news ?

Post by **Balthagor** » Mar 30 2005

This did not make it in. Subs can be very useful however. As Israel, I was able to send a sub up the Suez Canal while not at war with Egypt since they didn't have any sub spotters in the canal at the time. Was very dangerous, if they had spotted me, they would have declared war.

battlemode · Post by **battlemode** » Apr 10 2005

Balthagor wrote:This did not make it in. Subs can be very useful however. As Israel, I was able to send a sub up the Suez Canal while not at war with Egypt since they didn't have any sub spotters in the canal at the time. Was very dangerous, if they had spotted me, they would have declared war.

In what way was this useful?

Why place a sub in the Suez Canal in the first place? Does this give you more intel?

With a sub in the Suez Canal, does this affect the flow of ships in anyway?

Currently, many nations are building diesel subs with AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) which makes them VERY lethal to modern surface ships (diesels are extremely hard to detect vs nuclear subs, especially in littoral regions).

Germany in particular is building some of the most advanced subs of this type.

http://195.244.241.43/en/schiffbau/inde ... &m1=msc600

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... pe-214.htm

Israel bought three Dolphin Class subs from Germany and they carry nuclear tipped cruise missiles.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/sub/

The USA is especially nervous about diesels as they pose a very real risk to CV battle groups...

Post by **Balthagor** » Apr 10 2005

Actually, they are nuclear capable. Whether or not Israel actually has the nukes could be debated forever since they are tight lipped on the subject

The advantage was I could reposition my subs without the other player knowing. We don't allow subs to affect the flow of goods since we don't track how goods are transfered within supplied territory. We've looked at some ideas of how the game engine could support this in the future but these are only design notes a the moment.

Subs in the game are deadly to ships without the ability to detect or engage them. Once you have some ships with long range spotting that can see them, they can easily find themselves in a lot of danger. However, I've generally found a sub can take out 2-3 ships before it is sunk even when cornered.

battlemode · Post by **battlemode** » Apr 11 2005

Thanks for the reply

I am looking forward to this game.

What type of subs will be in the game? Will they all be nuclear? Or will diesel subs also be available? Will there be upgrades for these subs and will they be researchable?

In the world today we can see how subs have become quite important (China/Taiwan), so I would like to see this unit be quite useful.