Colony Starting condtions

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Balthagor
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Colony Starting condtions

Post by Balthagor »

Follow up to this post on Discord;
SUGGESTION: Important that your game don't feels like that stupid click your way linear through the game play like in other games .... ENVIRONMENT or at least NON trade able techs SHOULD NEVER been already researched at new colonies , because it feels weird , when you just settle on a new wild planet , it already starts somehow , with "canalisation, fully functional electricity network , all germs and viruses extinguished etc. --- that is so stupid in other games. So Homeworld should always be something special, as other new planets need time to develop ! THANKS
This was discussed by the team during development, but we're open to reconsidering. The decision was that when you found a colony, you're sending people from your homeworld, so they know what your homeworld already knows. Without doing this, due to the rate of research, colonies would never be able to complete all the non-tradable techs. Players would also need to keep watching for a colony that completes research on a non-tradable tech that is a bottleneck to other stuff to then trade them what they can. This felt excessively micro-managy in testing.
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Re: Colony Starting condtions

Post by Von Thoma »

That Homeworlds should always feel special ...

so that NONE tradeable techs is already a good an special note from this game, which makes them feel special ...

if you really want a planet also to be up to your own homeworld, you have to conquer another homeworld , that is somehow a motivation to do it ... else you say, WHY ,
if I just be able to build an own colony in a lot shorter time and it will be better !
There should be always a reason, why I should have to do that ...

SO best solution is, EVERY new colony should feel NEW and underdeveloped, it is like Spain settled at the Mayas and there would be already everything ?

But what you should offer is, THE FIRST RESEARCH SLOT at a new colony, should have the "development speed and efficacy from you home planet AND you should be able to choose from ALL non tradable techs, your nation already has researched !)
WHY , so I could specialize that new planet ... need an energy planet, only research all non tradeable techs, which helps for energy output ! etc.

So you still could built a specialized planet relative fast ... just choose the fitting techs !

You need a planet with all techs ... conquer a homeplanet from an AI :D
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Re: Colony Starting condtions

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I disagree with at least some of this. If a new colony starts at the bottom of the tech tree, they would not even be a "space faring" race. They would not know how to build basic land combat units. Why would a world send out colonists have give them zero technology to build their new world?

At the start of the game, a faction knows only 2 non-tradable techs; one for their atmosphere type and Orbital Labs (which is essentially the tech that makes a faction "space faring"). I truly believe that a new colony should inherit those two techs. I could trade my colony every other tech I know. Making the player take the time to make that diplomatic offer every time they colonize seems like something that will make the experience worse.
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Re: Colony Starting condtions

Post by Von Thoma »

Balthagor wrote: Aug 14 2022 I disagree with at least some of this. If a new colony starts at the bottom of the tech tree, they would not even be a "space faring" race. They would not know how to build basic land combat units. Why would a world send out colonists have give them zero technology to build their new world?

At the start of the game, a faction knows only 2 non-tradable techs; one for their atmosphere type and Orbital Labs (which is essentially the tech that makes a faction "space faring"). I truly believe that a new colony should inherit those two techs. I could trade my colony every other tech I know. Making the player take the time to make that diplomatic offer every time they colonize seems like something that will make the experience worse.
That new planet HAS ALREADY ALL "TRADEABLE TECHS" . so it isn't underdeveloped, that is already a lot of techs ... it only doesn't haves the NONE TRADEABLE TECHS , which are connected to the planet

Ahh have you played your game :D , when you colonize a new planet , you have to set all treaties, trading etc. , that he accept your trading and that from AI , apart that ... I think you have to do around 10 treaties between you and your colony OR nothing will work !!!!!!!!

Will do a screenshot next time a found I new colony ...

So the only thing what would change at the moment, is that the new colony , don't has the actual NON TRADABLE TECHS ... my first colonies, still developing the first NONE TRADEABLE TECH for their planet ... as new conquered ones, have already all ... makes no sense !

SO that NONE TRADEABLE TECHS , is the OWN development technology level OF EVERY SINGLE planet and not connected to your race ...
Example given , when the USA conquers IRAN , has IRAN suddenly the INFRASTRUCTURE of USA ? No it still has the infrastructure from IRAN, but now USA could build all that INFRASTRUCTURE/ENVIRONMENT techs they know, to rise IRAN to the tech of USA, and when they have been conquered they have been already been able to use all normal technology (what is terrible unrealistic, but okay it is a game LOL)
Even after years, IRAN wouldn't be up in tech to the main area of USA ... EAST Germany needed over 30 years to keep up to west Germany, even now they are still a little bit back ...

So normal Techs represents the development of each Civilization, that is already stupid, that this could be traded, prefer that, you gain a BUFF TO RESEARCH IT ... each 4x game has that, not yours :-) anyway !
And NONE TRADABLE Techs represents somehow the development of the INFRASTRUCTURE of that planet , so normal somewhere should be stored , which none tradeable techs are active on that planet, that would be the correct handling !

so do you see what I mean ?
Hope it is a little bit better explained, with my school englisch what I want to say :D

And yes I always starting my games with NO TECH :lol:
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Re: Colony Starting condtions

Post by Balthagor »

Von Thoma wrote: Aug 14 2022Ahh have you played your game :D
Oh, lots! I have over 2k hours on my game.

Von Thoma wrote: Aug 14 2022 That new planet HAS ALREADY ALL "TRADEABLE TECHS" . so it isn't underdeveloped, that is already a lot of techs ... it only doesn't haves the NONE TRADEABLE TECHS , which are connected to the planet
I just looked at one of my savegames where it's early game, I have my first colony. It has 17 known techs, 2 of them are non-tradable. Most of those come out of the non-tradable ones. The game engine does not support giving later techs without the earlier prerequisites, which are the non-tradable ones.

Von Thoma wrote: Aug 14 2022 ...when you colonize a new planet , you have to set all treaties, trading etc. , that he accept your trading and that from AI , apart that ... I think you have to do around 10 treaties between you and your colony OR nothing will work !!!!!!!!
The reason you don't see all the differences in tech is that the list only shows techs that the other side of the negotiations could currently research, which means a tech where they know all the prerequisites. In my later savegame, my colony knows 17, I know 20. But the 3 they don't know are a chain of A needs B needs C. So this does mean trading one at a time. However, your other option is to simply offer them a treaty of Research Sharing. That will do a one time share of all tradable techs. I tested that again, 1 treaty and it's done.
Von Thoma wrote: Aug 14 2022 So the only thing what would change at the moment, is that the new colony , don't has the actual NON TRADABLE TECHS...
Yeah, that's not possible. Orbital labs is needed for Advanced Computing, High Pressure Storage, Semi Automomous Probes and Stellaer Navigation Sensors. A region cannot know tech B without tech A if tech B requires tech A.
Von Thoma wrote: Aug 14 2022 And yes I always starting my games with NO TECH :lol:
While that option is available to the players, the game has designed with Normal intended as the default play style.
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