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 Post subject: Couple of Questions
PostPosted: Feb 23 2008 
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Hello, I have several questions about various aspects of the game and wasn't sure where to specifically ask them.

1. Emplacements, Radar, and Air Defense Emplacements. Are there any listings for their values, range, low air, med air, high air attack strengths? Also I have read somewhere else that they are not really economically practical?

2. Terrain - I see that there is different terrain modeled. If I scan over a river it says freezable. Is weather modeled in the game, and at certain times of the year can I cross rivers without amphibious or bridging equipment?

3. Electronic Warfare and Mining capabilities. How do these work, or do they? Electronic Warfare is listed in the manual; however, I haven't seen it in 4.6.1 anywhere?

4. Zone of Control, is this modeled in the game, example three hexes and two units on opposite ends with an empty hex in the middle. Can an enemy unit slip through that empty hex?

5. Training - Does the specific training have effects for certain types of experience or does it just all stack. So if I was planning a massive assault on a heavily occupied city, I could train my troops with urban combat and have a slight edge. It appears in the game however, that I could train them for desert warfare and gain the same type experience.

6. Bridging Units - Do they need to be specifically deployed with orders to bridge in order for other units to cross a river hex or does it happen automatically.

Thank you in advance for any responses, this game just keeps getting better and better each time I discover something new.


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 Post subject: Re: Couple of Questions
PostPosted: Feb 23 2008 
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Tnarg wrote:
Hello, I have several questions about various aspects of the game and wasn't sure where to specifically ask them.

1. Emplacements, Radar, and Air Defense Emplacements. Are there any listings for their values, range, low air, med air, high air attack strengths? Also I have read somewhere else that they are not really economically practical?

Hmm, i dont know if the stats are visable.I know they can be improved thru techs though.
I'm one of thsoe that didnt think they were really worth it.Too many men to man them, too expensive to build, the men stationed in them didnt really defend them, and they were very easily destroyed.


2. Terrain - I see that there is different terrain modeled. If I scan over a river it says freezable. Is weather modeled in the game, and at certain times of the year can I cross rivers without amphibious or bridging
equipment?

Nope, would have been cool though.

3. Electronic Warfare and Mining capabilities. How do these work, or do they? Electronic Warfare is listed in the manual; however, I haven't seen it in 4.6.1 anywhere?

Neither made the game.Sadly Both were cut after the manual was done, but before release.

4. Zone of Control, is this modeled in the game, example three hexes and two units on opposite ends with an empty hex in the middle. Can an enemy unit slip through that empty hex?

Dont follow the question.A zone of control in the game is basically who owns a hex.All hexs are controlled by someone.
Now that said,theres nothing stopping either unit in your example from moving thru/into that middle hex and claiming it under its zone of control.
It will likely be attacked as it does so though, by the opposing unit in the next hex.


5. Training - Does the specific training have effects for certain types of experience or does it just all stack. So if I was planning a massive assault on a heavily occupied city, I could train my troops with urban combat and have a slight edge. It appears in the game however, that I could train them for desert warfare and gain the same type experience.

Experience is experience.Far as i know it all just stacks.So though you trained your troops in mountian warfare, the bonus they get applies everywhere as a simple experience bonus.

6. Bridging Units - Do they need to be specifically deployed with orders to bridge in order for other units to cross a river hex or does it happen automatically.

Automatically .There is an order, but its considered automactically in force for a unit thats in the right place....iE on a river etc...

Thank you in advance for any responses, this game just keeps getting better and better each time I discover something new.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb 23 2008 
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Joined: Feb 06 2008
Posts: 179
Wow, quick response, thank you.

The ZOC question was something modeled in People's General. Even if there was an empty hex, enemy units could not pass through if the surrounding hexes where occupied. I am setting up my border defense for WWIII scenerio and just curious if I would be able to do a patchwork of emplacements and troops rather than a continuos solid line.

Here are a few more questions.

7. Troop initiative - Is there a detailed explanation somewhere that explains what exactly the different levels of troop initiative setting will do. Saw somewhere that 9-15 is a good setting as the troops will defend themselves but act offensively without orders. Guess my question more or less is if I set it at 15, what will happen at 16, or 17, or 19?

8. Terrain question again, bummer about the freezing rivers, but do troops move slower through forests and mountain ranges, and does the AI path around them if that is the case for certain types of units? Is the defense bonus supported or is it something like the mines and electronic warfare that never made it?

9. Capitals and ownership - I noticed that in one of my campaign games, each time I occupied a capital in a territory it would automatically move to another city. Once though, I noticed that the capital moved and then shortly after I attacked a land base (I am guessing that it was their last one) and the entire territory fell into my hands. Are there different approaches and strategies to gaining control of all of the territory. In another situation it seemed that the entire territory became mine because the capital was completely surrounded and I eventually took it. The capital didn't automatically move and it was a quick annexation.

10. Enemy aircraft - I notice that they don't utilize their air power very much unless it is defensive in their own territory. I have not yet seen any bombers penetrating my air space, or missiles for that matter.

Again thank you in advance for being patient with all of my questions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb 24 2008 
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Tnarg wrote:
Wow, quick response, thank you.

The ZOC question was something modeled in People's General. Even if there was an empty hex, enemy units could not pass through if the surrounding hexes where occupied. I am setting up my border defense for WWIII scenerio and just curious if I would be able to do a patchwork of emplacements and troops rather than a continuos solid line.

You likely wont need to do a solid line.unit can atatck into adjacent hexs, so every other hex works just fine. I often allow 2 empty hexs between my defense stacks, as each stack will attack any enemy entering the empty hex closest to it.
While some enemy units may get thru, usually not many and usually they are fairly banged up and not much threat behind me .A simple stack or two working the backfield usually takes them out in short order.


Here are a few more questions.

7. Troop initiative - Is there a detailed explanation somewhere that explains what exactly the different levels of troop initiative setting will do. Saw somewhere that 9-15 is a good setting as the troops will defend themselves but act offensively without orders. Guess my question more or less is if I set it at 15, what will happen at 16, or 17, or 19?

An exact "what will happen with Ini set to X "?Not that i know of.I would suggest setting it to zero.Troops will always defend themselves no matter what this is set to, and they will retreat on their own also based on what you set their loss tolerance to.
The Ai is less than brilliant :oops: ,so i would suggest allowing it to control as little as possibel.


8. Terrain question again, bummer about the freezing rivers, but do troops move slower through forests and mountain ranges, and does the AI path around them if that is the case for certain types of units? Is the defense bonus supported or is it something like the mines and electronic warfare that never made it?

Yes, terrain affects move speeds and even whether or not a unit can move thru it to begin with.The Ai does understand this, and follows it somewhat.
Defense bonus works.Close defense is one of your best friends in this game.


9. Capitals and ownership - I noticed that in one of my campaign games, each time I occupied a capital in a territory it would automatically move to another city. Once though, I noticed that the capital moved and then shortly after I attacked a land base (I am guessing that it was their last one) and the entire territory fell into my hands. Are there different approaches and strategies to gaining control of all of the territory. In another situation it seemed that the entire territory became mine because the capital was completely surrounded and I eventually took it. The capital didn't automatically move and it was a quick annexation.

Very big question.Yes, im sure people use different stratagies.I like to control a regions borders, isolate their capitol, than take it when im ready.
BUT i am not always able to do so.In which case i end up chasing that damn mole of a capital and whacking it after it pops up in a new place :lol:


10. Enemy aircraft - I notice that they don't utilize their air power very much unless it is defensive in their own territory. I have not yet seen any bombers penetrating my air space, or missiles for that matter.

They do come into enemy lands,but no where as often as they should.
Small maps this is likely to happen more often on.Also maps with regions who have decent aircraft (especially where range is considered)
Ive seen some pretty spectacular air battles in my regions, when i dont just simply destroy all the enemy air facilties.



Again thank you in advance for being patient with all of my questions.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb 24 2008 
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General
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I think the Region surrenders instead of changing Capitol cities when their morale falls below a certain point. This is a variable, probably some sort of average between military morale and civilian.

-Light

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 Post subject: Re: Couple of Questions
PostPosted: Feb 25 2008 
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Joined: Nov 12 2004
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Location: Michigan, USA
Tnarg wrote:
Hello, I have several questions about various aspects of the game and wasn't sure where to specifically ask them.

1. Emplacements, Radar, and Air Defense Emplacements. Are there any listings for their values, range, low air, med air, high air attack strengths? Also I have read somewhere else that they are not really economically practical?



I don't think they are viewable in the game, but you can look up their stats in the SRUNITS.CSV spreadsheet file in the \Custom folder (they are way down at the bottom of the list).

In many wargames it is necessary to abstract weapon ranges and unit deployment with a concept like "Zone of Control" but not in SR since individual ranges are modeled directly. Artillery, in particular, can have a long reach so as Tkobo explained you do not need a solid line of troops for defense. Look at your unit ranges relative to the hex size for the scenario you are playing and plan accordingly. You can set up some pretty nasty interlocking fields of fire with artillery units having 2 - 3 hex ranges.

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 Post subject: Re: Couple of Questions
PostPosted: Feb 25 2008 
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Mitchell wrote:
...Look at your unit ranges relative to the hex size for the scenario you are playing and plan accordingly. You can set up some pretty nasty interlocking fields of fire with artillery units having 2 - 3 hex ranges.


Which I really hope the Goats adjust in 2020.

The smaller hex scale will help. However, if we have standard tube or rocket artillery firing hundreds of miles it will unbalance the game -- like it did in 2010. All you need to win a land battle in 2010 is a ton of Chinese rocket launchers.

Regards,
Feltan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb 25 2008 
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In 2010 you could always turn off the "enhanced ranges" to get realistic firing ranges. But the truth is those MLRS units really do fire that far. There are 2-3 of the units that we will review for if they should switch to scud style separate missile units, but most will remain an MLRS units with ammo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb 25 2008 
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Perhaps increase the damage penalty for range of art ?

This would still allow them their long range, but also show that they might not be all that accurate at such ?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb 25 2008 
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Balthagor wrote:
In 2010 you could always turn off the "enhanced ranges" to get realistic firing ranges. But the truth is those MLRS units really do fire that far. There are 2-3 of the units that we will review for if they should switch to scud style separate missile units, but most will remain an MLRS units with ammo.


Chris,

I was talking about playing with "enhanced ranges" turned off.

tkobo, has it right. It is about hitting, not how far artillery will shoot. Heck, an M-16 rifle is accurate out to 450m or so. However, if you just hold it at a 45 degree angle and fire, the round would probably go 10,000m. So, what is the M-16's range?

An MRLS can fire a long way.....but to what purpose? The absolute maximum range it can throw a warhead is of little use to military folks, and shouldn't be modelled as effective range.

Regards,
Feltan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb 25 2008 
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Feltan wrote:
...tkobo, has it right. It is about hitting, not how far artillery will shoot...

An MRLS can fire a long way.....but to what purpose?...

Ah, now we are at the root of the matter. Accuracy in game is modeled as the attack value. It is true that we could increase the range penalty to damage but I suspect it may just be that the MLRS units have too high an attack value for their base value. This is the sort of thing that we can work on in beta testing and will likely continue through the release and for years after. If we do determine that the range penalty to damage needs to increase it is not the sort of change that causes regression errors so is very safe in late stages of development.

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