Use of Space

[George Geczy]

There was already a question under military about space units, but I'd like to throw this open to comment - what would people like to see as far as space units goes?

Communications satellites? (Affects military efficiency, etc)

Spy satellites? (lifts 'fog of war')

Killer satellites?

Anything else that would make sense?

If we allowed things such as the space station, what would it be used for?

And no, our game does not end when you fly off to Alpha Centauri

-- George.

[lemmy]

Communications satellites? (Affects military efficiency, etc)

yes please

Spy satellites? (lifts 'fog of war')

oh yeah, this too...

Killer satellites?

sure, this could be fun

Anything else that would make sense?

If we allowed things such as the space station, what would it be used for?

space stations could be used for research, is there research in SR?
But they would have to be really expensive, since it now takes a whole lot of countries to build one space station. But somehow i don't think manned space stations would fit in the SR-world, the world is in chaos and war is everywhere, why would someone risk building an expensive space station which could easily be shot down by your enemies killer satellites.
So if they are in, they had better be worth all the trouble.

And no, our game does not end when you fly off to Alpha Centauri

oh bugger...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lemmy on 2002-06-27 02:13 ]</font>

[3iff]

Space would be expensive to get into and while satellites of various types would be interesting, something like a space station would be far too expensive to establish and maintain...

Comm, spy, killer satellites and other types would be an interesting option to include.

[George Geczy]

At $25 billion, the International Space Station is certainly expensive, but in comparison the US's fleet of only 22 B2 Bombers cost almost $30 billion (give or take a few billion).

The question is, what would the 'short term' value be for a manned space station - and yea, doesn't seem like you'd get your $25 billion worth when the world is in chaos and everyone is fighting each other. Historically general science and civilization advancement always suffer during wartime (Dark Ages, anyone?) Now if you can show a military use, however, the budget opens right up...

[tkobo]

Couldnt a space station have a political effect also ?
I mean , pointing up into space and saying "look what OUR great society can create,dont YOU want to join us?" should have some effect.
Wasnt that at least in part what the great space race was about ?Bragging rights ?Showing how OUR (whoever we may be) society can achieve great things?

And what about all those neato space experiments run at billions of dollars ? Shouldnt they yield a research bonus or open up special space only research projects for countries (maybe limit research of some units to only those countries that can do these space experiments)?

[jfbbis]

Someone remember the mind control satellite in the Illuminati (an old Steve Jackson board game) ? This one would be neat....

[George Geczy]

Someone remember the mind control satellite in the Illuminati (an old Steve Jackson board game) ? This one would be neat....

I think we can safely rule out mind control satellites from Supreme Ruler 2010 Time Machines are pretty much out too. As are most other things beyond the realm of natural possibilities: wormholes, aliens races, gun control in the US, etc.

-- George.

[Juergen]

Hmmmm..what about some "Golden Eye" Satellites?The EMP wave could ruin other satellites nearby and destroy high tech equipment on the ground.
And maybe satellites can be used as a protection against ICBMs if they are properly equipped.

[MrWhite]

My personal feeling that the 25 Billion Dollar Space Station is really a big money pit, you know like the B2 bomber. Instead of going out there and saying hey who can build this for teh smallest amount of money and get teh job done.

NASA goes and gets international, which doubles the cost right there, you've got Systems Integration to worry about on a grand scale. You have to make considerations of only one launching platform. go down teh list and half your cost is in making the station Internationally friendly and huge costs to jsut get the system into space on a antiquity space ship we know as the shuttle.

We all know the military is big spenders, that is completely for sure.

If the military was wantign to get the job done you would see them getting the cost down considerablly, becasue you have to put this one mechanic in design.

cost of tanks, guns, planes, and of course space vehicles drop dramtically the more you build them.

Why did the B2 Bomber cost so much, becasue we built very few of them. most aircraft designers will tell you, if you buy 20 B2's from me It's gonna cost you 2.5 billion dollars, but if you go upto him and say hey build me a hundred then I'll say hey then that would only cost you 650 million a piece.

The simple reason is that allows the manufacturer to retool his factory once and not have to have wasted time and space on a small project as well as cost of materials in bulk and other certain items the more you build teh more cost effective is to make machines parts and other things.

So you say hey build me 60 orbital space platforms and fleet of space craft to get up there, your gonna have cheaper units at lower costs.

Ok stupid rant meant nothing jsut ranign away.

Whtey Out

[MrWhite]

Ohh and to add being teh toal loser of space jokeying that I can be some times I will also have to add that the idea of a space elevator will come to frutrition as soon as even 2010 if not near 2025...

If everything goes well in the tech industry, scientist will soon be able to pump out a product called nanotubes, which is basiclly nano length tubes of carbon that is stronger then steal and have a higher tensil strength then a diamond.

The idea is that you put a object in space and just lower a rope down to earth from 25,000 miles above the earth... At this distance the rope will have close to no tension becasue the length and gravity and distacne from the eart almost negate each other out. So teh Cable could be as thin as a piece of Cat 5, of course this is jsut the start once the cable comes down you send cables up and in a year or two you could have a huge elevator brining hundreds of tons of payload into orbit each month.

so space will be doable in teh future and these designs are on teh drawing boards, so theoretically it could be a late age tech to throwin the game.

Whitey out

[Reddemon]

Well MrWhite that is simple economics. Its not stupid its the facts. You are correct on your assumpution but the Military are not the brightest bulb on the christmas tree trust me I know I spent 9 yrs in the Army and had to get out fast they have a way of thinking that is very unique to the Army . So you continue ranting stating or even questioning anything you want because this is an open forum and we are here to give opinion ideals or even criticism on all aspect of the game. That is why I like BG so much they actually came out to us the consumer and asked us what would make the game better before they even made the game. Not like many other company that go out and make the game then published it then come out oh our sales are down what is wrong maybe we should have a forum now and findout what is wrong or what can we do to make it better but by then its too late we the consumer has already given them a bad name and its curtains for the game. Now IF BG fails its not because of there capablities or programing or anything on there part its because US has consumers didnt supply them with enough information to make a better game. As I see it now it not going to happen because BG is accepting our ideals even tho some are far fetched they still look into it and see what can they do with it. So now im ranting sorry but one thing I have to say is that there is no STUPID ranting because everything has to be said or thought of in time so BG can make an excellent game and not fall into that pit that SUPER POWER is in. (SORRY had to sneak that one in BG )

So in conclusion RANT on my friend for that ranting might come the next best IDEAL for the game

[MrWhite]

Well my ranting comes reading way to many books on the Skunk Works... You know that little place that brought you the U2, The RS-71 blackBird before LBJ did a Mis Print and called it the SR-71.

Oh and of course don't forget the Stelth fighter.

What just ticks me off is that they, Skunkworks, had designed a Stealth bomber and could mka eit for 250 million a piece, but the air force gave the contract to northrop becasue they were having financhial difficulties so instead of having a great bomber and cheap to boot we end up with a oversized bomber with a ending price tage above a couple billion dollars, that's where it kicks me in teh big mean bean machine.

Anyways... If any Areospace company deserves credit for making war a cheaper and easier thing it has to be skunk works. The U2's and SR's prevented a hell of a lot loss's and wars and the F-117 has provided a nearly invunlerable plane. But oh well, In teh military you can't base quality over keeping state senators happy..

Rant Rant Rant...

[George Geczy]

We did discuss a costing system for items where higher quantities of production will result in lower costs per unit. I forget now whether that's still in the design plans... gotta check that (Chris?)

But that's off topic for this thread I guess...

-- George.

[BattleGoat]

George's memory isn't what it was

It is in the design document that the first of any unit always costs more (Tooling Up Cost).