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So, you're stuck on weather are you...

Well, what do you want weather to do?
What do you want to do with weather?
I'm sure some of us can come up with some ideas and confuse you even more...

We are always happy to confuse you :grin:

Okay... Here are some of the challenges with weather.

1) Seasons - In winter there should be a hit on a unit's movement ability and there should be a hit on Agricultural production. (Fall is harvest time, so theoretically Agriculture should not produce evenly but in spurts.)

2) The weather on one side of the map might be different then the weather on the other, particularly as you get up into the continent wide maps. But that doesn't even scratch the surface of when you have a world map and the seasons are completely opposite (Northern vs Southern hemispheres).

3) Since we use satellite imagery for the maps, how do we reflect the different "seasons"? Unfortunately we can't get exactly matching satellite imagery shots for summer and winter.

Those are just some of the challenges that face us with weather. We may end up taking the easy way out on this and not deal with it much, except for some random events. Thoughts??? Comments??? There is so much in the game now, can we afford to largely ignore weather?

Some of my thoughts:

-All in all I would like to have it as a feature unless it means that some other parts that I may like more would have to be neglected.


-Basically its a matter of priority and how quickly and how good the feature can be implemented well.One option is to finish other things first that are a little more up on the priority list and then dealing with weather.
However the disadvantage would be that all features included in these games have to work together and I can imagine that it could be difficult to add something without changing the whole game balance.And since weather affects a lot...this way would only be a good option if there are some "really important things" waiting for some improvement.


-Implementing only the most important weather features and thus creating a sort of "lite weather" and adding the more special and complex features later (if there is still enough time) may be kind of a middle road.
This way the basic effects of weather on the game may be tested and it would be easier to adjust other game features to it,the feature fits in better and would look less like an aftertought.

-Vehicles may have winter tracks,most planes are "all-weather" and infantry may complain but can still move in the snow but there is no way for a farmer to grow crops in the winter.The effect of seasons on agricultural production is important.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Juergen on 2002-11-09 10:14 ]</font>

Can't all this be preprogrammed into each region on the map so that on a given day in time each region will know and show its own time of year/season and weather ?

Add in random extreme weather events and it seem to me you got it down.
Have the random events broken into 4 season catagories so that only certain events can happen in certain seasons and it should work nicely.

We do already allow for some random weather factors in Scenario design (specifically Hurricanes/Tornados/Typhoons & Earthquakes), so those may make it in given time.

Seasonal flux in crop production would also be very cool to have, though I'm sure it will confuse some players (ie, "hey, why is my production down so much this past month?") We may make it game option then.

Though rain, mud, and snow would be cool additions - what would a march on Moscow be without the mud of autumn and frozen snow of winter? Just ask Napoleon and Guderian about the effect of weather on a good battle plan

Weather effecting unit movement, resupply, morale, etc would all be nice touches. So would freezing rivers and lakes. It's still on the feature list, but it has to pull in its toes from the chopping block every now and again...

-- George.

PS - yes, I know that technically an Earthquake is not a "weather event"

Have to agree with Tkobo. Random events can probably suffice for most of the desired effects.

Mud can have a high probability in winter and almost a zero probability in summer (not counting English summers!).

Food production can be boosted during late spring to early autumn, and reduced from late autumn to early spring. A sine wave distribution might work with +/- 20% of 'normal' production.

Are seasons relevant for areas closer to the equator? In the UK, seasons are very distinct (apart from having all 4 seasons in one day!). Would equator regions experience less seasonal variation - apart from dryer/wetter times?

After recent discussions here, it would appear that the leaning is towards the ideas discussed in the last message - random events and some seasonal changes, but no "weather patterns" that go over the map.

On the smallest maps it would be possible to apply a single weather state to the entire map (ie, 'cold/snowing'), but obviously this cannot be applied to the larger maps (ie, the entire world).

It would be cool to have weather patterns, but it's never been done before and we don't have time to be first in SO many areas

-- George.

How will we know what the conditions are in a given hex ?

We have a little weather conditions/weather forcast subscreen that does the job for current weather and a short term forecast. It's been in the game for two years now, but it always says "Sunny, 50% chance of rain, and 20 degrees Celsius". Whether you're in the mid east or the artic, it's always nice weather

What about applying a "standard weather state" for a hex(or perhaps a couple of hexes)in a region and dependent on season there may be a chance that it rains,snows or its a sunny day for a given ammount of time?
For hexes(or at least some) in a desert are the chances for snow would be 0% at all times and rain only has a good chance in autum or winter.Every day (or week,month) the computer would check if a certain weather condition (rain) applies.After given time the computer will check again and the rain/snow might continue or give way to a sunny day
Some weahter states (like fog and rain) may appear at the same time and some (sunny day and fog) would be mutually exclusive.

Example:
England during winter:

Every day there is a chance for:
70% snow
20% rain
10% sunny day

This is actually the way weather was planned for the game engine, but there are a lot of things to do to make it happen. Probably the two most interesting problems are weather patterns and player feedback.

Weather patterns are generally important because I think weather will lose some of its appeal if it simply "popped up" on the map and then went away. One would instead expect a storm system to travel across a continent, etc.

Player feedback is the other element, since if weather is a factor then players will want to know: a) what the weather is; and b) what the forecast is. This would involve weather maps, weather reports, etc.

It's all quite possible, but on the priority scale it has dropped pretty low. For example, would it really enhance gameplay all that much for most players?

-- George.