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PostPosted: Jul 06 2002 
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I really like to see (and many others I know) a true turn-based strategy game.I believe it is the safest option to ensure that the game can be complex as possible.
I have played many RTS games(including EE) only to find out that no matter how comlex their counter-unit system is (classic "tank rushing is not possible in EE) and no matter what details the creators put in...it still remains a clickfest.Speed wins.It defeats every strategy,if you cant keep up with the speed then you loose since the opponent will have more units than you have and that is an universal advantage.
No,I want to take my time and THINK.I believe this is what these kind of games are really all about.Especially a game of this scope.


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PostPosted: Jul 07 2002 
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I really like to see (and many others I know) a true turn-based strategy game.I believe it is the safest option to ensure that the game can be complex as possible.


Unfortunately we only have enough time to build one game, and so have to decide between making a "true" TBS or a "turnless" system.

We are certainly going to do everything to avoid "clickfest" results. That is a fundamental design committment. But a traditional, wargame-style turn based system is not the current design any longer. After looking at this long and hard, it would seem that a "turnless" system will offer better gameplay (ie, more fun) and a more interesting over-all game.

-- George.
<Lead Designer, BattleGoat Studios>


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PostPosted: Jul 07 2002 
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So this is just the way it is...

I was interested in this game..I not sure if Im any longer.
I believe that an RTS game will not support that kind of comlexity that I like to see in a game.Of course I cant know but I suspect that a lot of things will now be cut and the game will be more a "mainstream" game.Tell me are you going to do that?It was said that you people dont want to make a "tank rush" game but with the RTS play time system you are on a good way.
I dont know why you are changing the design that much but I believe (and really no offense intended) that you want to make a game that the "masses" like.Arent there enough flat and simplistic games around?
Just as it is the casual player has more than enough to play..but a player who wants complexity barely finds anything.


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PostPosted: Jul 08 2002 
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Arent there enough flat and simplistic games around?

Yes, there certainly are enough of those. But we are definitely not making a standard 'RTS' game. As mentioned earlier in this thread, many of the key elements in playing single-player will be the ability to stop time to give orders & examine things, and the ability to change the pace of time passage. Even a Multiplayer game will allow these elements if the Host sets the options on.

A lot of it goes back to our original decision to use simultaneous turn resolution - originally we had: 1) Order Phase, 2) Resolution Phase, Repeat...

Even though this method is the most realistic, one problem with this type of turn based game is the lack of immediate 'gratification'; you can tell a unit to attack, but you won't see the results until the turn resolution phase (after you press 'end turn'). Many TBS games, ie Panzer General, Civ, Alpha Centauri, use a 'you move, I move, you move, etc' system - less realistic, but easier to understand.

The natural extension of our 'simultaneous resolution' system was to simply remove the end-turn button - time keeps going until you press 'pause'.

We can actual simulate turn based by doing a 'pause/go a day/pause/go a day...' system, but why bother with the artificial pauses - instead, any time you want to pause, just press the button.
So, I think we've kept 95%+ of the turnbased strategy elements, and kept our desire for simultaneous resolution of orders.

-- George.
<Lead Programmer, BattleGoat Studios>


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PostPosted: Jul 08 2002 
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Hmmmm I understand.Yes this sounds logical.I can imagine that it is much better to imediately see the results of an action.Well as long as the game stays as comlex as it is planned right now (or as much as I have seen to be precise) and doesnt reward click-time speed Im sure it will be great.
And BTW the pause option sounds like a very good idea to be implemented in this type of game.If have seen this option work very well in the Baldurs Gate series before.


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PostPosted: Jul 08 2002 
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To further George's point that we indeed will the game's sophistication, consider that it take 365 days to make a Battleship. It's hard to be a click-fest when you have to wait a year :smile:


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PostPosted: Jul 09 2002 
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To further George's point that we indeed will the game's sophistication, consider that it take 365 days to make a Battleship. It's hard to be a click-fest when you have to wait a year :smile:

And they are not cheap to build either - SR2010 is not going to end up like Empire Earth where you can see a fleet of 100 Battleships and 100 Aircraft carriers coming over your horizon. Just not gonna happen :smile:
-- George.


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